APL Apollo Tubes Limited (NSE: APLAPOLLO) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 07, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Anubhav Gupta — Chief Strategy Officer
Sanjay Gupta — Chairman & Managing Director
Analysts:
Sailesh Raja — Analyst
Amit Dixit — Analyst
Kumar Saumya — Analyst
Bharat Shah — Analyst
Aditya Welekar — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Akshay — Analyst
Pallav Agarwal — Analyst
Vikas — Analyst
Anupam Gupta — Analyst
Bhavin Pande — Analyst
Mayank Bandari — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the APL Apollo Tubes Limited Q4 FY ’25 Post-Results Earnings Con Call hosted by Batlivala and Karani Securities India Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions once the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sailesh Raja from Batliwal Securities India Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Sailesh Raja — Analyst
Yeah. Good evening all. On behalf of, I would like to thank everyone for joining APL’s Q4 FY ’25 earnings conference call. We are pleased to have with us today Mr Sanjay Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr Deepak Goyal, Director of Operations; Mr Gupta, Chief Strategy Officer; and Mr, his CFO of the company. I will now hand over the call to Mr Gupta for his opening remarks, following which we will open the floor for the Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Anubhav Gupta — Chief Strategy Officer
Thanks, Alesh, and thanks BNK for hosting our organization for our quarter-four FY ’25 earnings call. I welcome all the participants who have got by.
If I have to start this call regarding our FY ’25 earnings, few highlights I would like to make. Number-one, we crossed 3.1 million tons as a sales volume for the full-year. This makes APL Apollo a as the world’s the largest downstream steel player outside China. And in terms of structural steel tube, we would be even bigger than the Chinese steel pipe companies. But it’s been second year that we have closed our balance sheet with net cash. As at 31st March 2025, we stand with net cash of more than INR300 crores on our balance sheet. Our operating cash-flow to EBITDA is more than 100%. Again, if you see last three, four years trend, our OCF to EBITDA has been around 90% consistently. Our ROC for FY ’25 was 25%. This is slightly off last year, but we shall come back very strongly and we shall give you reasons as we move forward. And it’s the fifth consecutive year of almost zero working capital days. We started cash-and-carry a campaign in FY ’21 and throughout five years, our distributors, dealers, customers have a — it given some strategy of cash and carrying and which has led to massive cash-flow generation for our company over the last five years.
And if — and if you look at the performance in last 12 months, I would like to take a step-back a bit more. Last two years, we have grown our volume by 45%, 15% in FY ’24 and 20% in FY ’25. This came in the hindsight of weak macros, weak retail spends, low government, infrastructure, German elections, uncertainty on global trade and obviously, we see down-cycle, which started 1.5 years ago. So what it did is that it depressed our EBITDA spreads below INR4,000 per ton in FY ’25 as we closed the year with INR300, INR900 per tonne. But this is not the — this is not the — this is not the real APL Apollo. We are capable of generating much better EBITDA spreads and we’ll tell about the strategy how we’re going to achieve that. But what has — what this growth has done to us is that this volume growth of 45% in last two years, it has made us reach at a market-share within structural steel pipes where we can command massive brand premium.
Now if you look at the margin in our general product category, we reported INR2,800 per ton EBITDA. Now that’s almost INR1,000 per ton higher than what we have been reporting over the last five years. So even in the most competitive segment, which is general category, we are now minimum 5% higher premium than our nearest competitors. Now this is the realization of brand-building, what we saw in 2020 when we moved to cash-and-carry because we knew that the steel type — the steel pipe industry cannot survive without APL Apollo product, so we could command cash-and-carry. And after five years, now we are again sure that our brand is so strong, our market-share is so strong that we can command more than 5% premium even in one of the base category product segments. So this is a big achievement.
I would like to highlight what we have been able to achieve in FY ’25. And with this positioning and business positioning, we are confident that we will come back with the EBITDA spreads near INR5,000 per ton in FY ’26, which will even improve going-forward as our sales mix continues to improve and we continue to expand our markets internationally where we get higher EBITDA spreads.
As far as the volume guidance is concerned, we are highly confident that we can continue to deliver 20% growth Y-o-Y over the next three, four years and this is the reason that why we are expanding our capacities to 7 million ton in next few years from current 5 million ton. The capex for this is around 15 b and INR, which will be spread across the next few years and it will be easily funded from the internal cash flows. Now this expansion is based on four strategies. Number-one is expansion in the virgin markets. So Virgin market number-one is East India where we are adding two plants with combined capacity of 500,000 tons. The next market is Dubai in an international market where we are adding additional 200,000 tons. Then in South India, we are adding up a fourth plant with a capacity of 360,000 tonnes.
The next strategy here is the expansion in the new product segments. So one is the roofing sheet, which has done well for the polo in the last two years since the launch and we are increasing capacity by further 500,000 ton in this segment and another 100,000 ton in the heavy segment. The third size is to focus on exports from the Indian mills and that’s the reason that why we have decided to put up a plant in Gujarat with capacity of 300,000 tonnes. Now that India is being seen as a favorable trade partner from the West Side, we are confident that with our strength of steel buying and expertise in steel tubes, we will be able to gain market-share in international markets from Indian mills as well.
And fourth strategy is, of course to maintain the brand premium for APL Apollo, which will keep our margins high in the coming years. And lastly, I would like to tell you that after 12 months when we — when we come on this call again, our ROCE will be around 35% and we would have covered all the earnings loss what happened in FY ’25 because of the stressed margins and company will come out much stronger with more cash on the books and higher ROCE. Thanks so much. Happy to take questions now.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you. Thank you, sir. We will now begin with a question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star N1 on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, please press star N2. All participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Amit Dixit
Yeah, hi, good evening, everyone, and congratulations for a great set of numbers and announcing the capacity expansion plan much-awaited. I have couple of questions. The first one is on the capacity expansion plan itself. So you have highlighted that you will also expand in roofing sheets and heavy structures. Now what just wanted to understand what is our current capacity utilization in both these segments and what gives us confidence to launch capacities in these two particular segments where the traction has been a tad slower. That is my first question.
Anubhav Gupta
Sheet is 100% utilized as of now, has all and that’s why we are expanding. And in heavy structural, the utilization is 60% as of now.
Amit Dixit
Okay. Okay. So by the time this capacity comes out, you expect that this segment also would be maybe fully utilized or above 80% kind of utilization will be there.
Anubhav Gupta
That’s right. It’s a gradual increase, right, for next three years, so of course.
Amit Dixit
The second question is, in Slide 22, you have highlighted the opportunity in solar space. Now in — with which of these capacity expansion this particular opportunity fits in?
Sanjay Gupta
So this is the first solarity, I mean, there are like two, three kind of applications. One is one is the product which comes under, then the top tubes, which comes under health and also which is rust Group as us group and some of these types also come in the galv. So it’s spread across the category. And is it true that for Solar, the support structure particularly you can’t use one of your competitors was highlighting that yeah so as of now we are the talk tubes are being produced on a conventional that’s right.
Amit Dixit
Okay sure thank you so much and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Kumar Somia from Ambit Capital. Please go-ahead.
Kumar Saumya
Hi, sir. Good evening. Sir, just one question from my side. In 2Q, sir, the steel prices had to enter the priority is a
Operator
Little louder.
Kumar Saumya
Yeah. In 2Q, the lower prices have — yeah, am I audible now?
Operator
Yes, please go-ahead.
Kumar Saumya
Yes, sir. Sir, just one clarity I wanted to understand if you in Q3, the steel cycle has gone down by INR5 and we have booked an inventory loss of about INR150 crores. This quarter, again, the steel cycle was up about INR5. So if you could just help understand what is the inventory gain in this quarter?
Anubhav Gupta
So in Q2, the — the decline in steel prices was around INR8,000 a ton, okay, that was very steep. That’s why we had to book inventory losses. And in Q4, the increase in steel prices around INR2,000 rupees a ton, which does not move the needle plus or minus. So this EBITDA of INR4.13 billion rupees is without any inventory gains.
Kumar Saumya
Okay. And sir, lastly, what will be the utilization levels at Raipur and for the full-fiscal as of 21st March?
Anubhav Gupta
And for Raipur, if you see, it is around 60% on blended basis across the product segments. And Dubai, we have operational capacity of about 300,000 tonnes and in Q4, we did volume of around 45,000 tonnes. And so the year end. Year-end is around 140,000 — 145,000 ton what we did for the full-year, 145,000 tonnes.
Kumar Saumya
Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Bharat Shah from Ask Investment Managers. Please go-ahead.
Bharat Shah
Yeah. Hi, Sanjay. The capacity — you said the growth rate of 20% plus over next three years, but your own calculation suggests that it should be better than that because current demand for the structural still tube is about 9 million ton, which is expected to double to 18 million in five to six years and essentially, it is equal between HR virgin material and secondary route material for each. But over six years we expect actually secondary route to decline and therefore the entire increase to be taken-up by the primary virgin materials. Therefore, that itself suggests close to 20% compounded growth for six years. And if we gain the share further as we expect to do, then we should be doing better than that 20%, isn’t it?
Sanjay Gupta
Good evening,. Can explain, we growth around 20% because you know we are that the economy and the scenario is not helping us and we are also preferred to maintain the margin also in-the-water margin 4,000 in up as have 5,000 cars per II and we have — we have to maintain this margin also. But our total, I can say you have a total plan for 2030 is 10 million ton minimum. The 10 million tonne, [Foreign Speech]
Bharat Shah
But potential to do higher than that is evident in the capacity expansion that you are planning yourselves.
Sanjay Gupta
Yes, sir.
Bharat Shah
Okay., question, which Joe you per se it is emanating you talked about Joe the kind of swings in the unprecedented swing in the steel prices, which is beyond anybody’s control. So may down, but as a strategy we have best products, best plants based ability to cover and industry growth itself is in evidence as to why it will do well and structural primary steel tube industry wife will do well. So Hamadi, yeah, these are buysia Pachistaka volume growth. So I definitely believe is something which is implicit. Are focused profit per bar meta per ton and period after period solidity increase came in a shy focus that will give quality of the growth far superior predictability and think solidated.
Sanjay Gupta
[Foreign Speech] Nobody can replace us in the market. [Foreign Speech] I don’t want to take pressure on myself and the system. [Foreign Speech]
Bharat Shah
[Foreign Speech]
Sanjay Gupta
[Foreign Speech]
Bharat Shah
[Foreign Speech]
Sanjay Gupta
[Foreign Speech] controlling of the cost. My style is talk about the vision of future. [Foreign Speech] almost close to INR1,000 ton [Foreign Speech] INR800 per tonne FY ’25 ’26 or 26 27. We are targeting the two steps to reduce in is alla, but of our vision scores INR1,000 INR600. Number two, [Foreign Speech]
Bharat Shah
One last thing,
Sanjay Gupta
[Foreign Speech]
Bharat Shah
Just last comment I’ll offer, feedback as well as comment. And given the unprecedented volatility in the steel price and given overall challenging demand condition, especially considering the fact that this happened to be a year when pre-election — post-election phase got combined and therefore it affected the demand in many other things. So challenging environment may first-half that, second-half may [Foreign Speech]. Would you say this probably has been the most difficult year to manage in terms of the external challenges?
Sanjay Gupta
[Foreign Speech] This is the toughest time of my life. [Foreign Speech] We are right on-track.
Bharat Shah
Congratulations, Sanjay ji, entire APIL team and all the very best for probably what is going to be the most exciting phase ahead.
Sanjay Gupta
Thank you,. Thank you. We hope so [Foreign Speech]
Bharat Shah
[Foreign Speech] And all the very best for that.
Sanjay Gupta
Thank you very. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Aditya Welekar from Axis Securities. Please go-ahead.
Aditya Welekar
Yeah. Thank you for this opportunity. My question is specifically on the guidance on-sales volume which we provided in the last quarter for ’26 and ’27 of 4 million and 5 million tons. And if we go with 20% volume growth, this guidance is slightly exceeding that. So is it fair to work on these numbers of 4 million and 5 million tons of sales volume for ’26-27 or it will be slightly lower than that?
Anubhav Gupta
I mean, see, I mean this number which we gave, which we gave with a lot of thought, right, and a lot of calculation behind and it should be backed with the market situation. It should be back with the capacities in our — all the plants, it should be back with our distribution network. It should be back with our — with the situation, what is panning out at macro levels, global political level. So yes, I mean we are confident that 20% year-on-year volume growth for next three, four years is highly achievable.
Aditya Welekar
Okay. And the jump-in the EBITDA per tonne for general products from ‘1970 to 2,800, is one factor is it because of the drop-in the spread between Patri and primary and discounts coming off and will it sustain going-forward?
Sanjay Gupta
No. This is because of the market-share at which now Apollo is positioned, right, where the replacement for our brand is not visible.
Aditya Welekar
Understood. So it will be sustained, right, going-forward.
Sanjay Gupta
It will sustain, yes.
Aditya Welekar
Last part is on the guidance of INR1,500 crores of capex, how it will be phased-out for which year-wise, if you can throw some idea for, 26, ’27 28
Sanjay Gupta
500 crores per year, you can.
Aditya Welekar
Okay. Thank you. That’s all from my side.
Operator
Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Sneeha Talreja from Nuvama Wealth. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Good evening, team, and congratulations on strong set of numbers. Just wanted to deep-dive on your EBITDA per ton. Firstly, you have, of course pulled up the discount and you mentioned there are no inventory gains, but what could be operating leverage benefit that you would have received only in this particular quarter?
Anubhav Gupta
So, if you see, I mean Q3 volume was 830,000 ton and Q4 volume is 850,000 ton. So sequentially, cost benefits will not be too much visible. There will be more visible in-quarter one as the volume expands beyond 850,000 tonnes or second-quarter. But yes, if you look at our employee cost, that has come down, right? Obviously, it is supported by the surrendering of salary by Sanjay. But — but other than that, we are working on all the fronts, whether it is freight cost, whether it is power cost, whether it is steel wastage cost, right? So some benefits keep on coming in. And then the volume ramp-up, whether it is 20,000 tonnes quarter-on-quarter increase, some leverage you will continue to see over the coming quarters?
Unidentified Participant
Understood. Given you mentioned about the salary part of it, how sustainable is that until when can we see those kind of interest continuing? That’s one. Secondly, we could also see that kind of there was a tug or for between volumes and margins. The reason I’m saying is you did give guidance of 10% Q-o-Q volume growth and you also gave INR400 odd crores EBITDA where we did not see the volume growth at the same level, but we saw you exceeding the margins. So what is something — so is it something that next year also there will be going to be a margin of margins is going to be something like your core focus or how are you planning out things here?
Anubhav Gupta
Yeah, see, I mean again, I mean, like I — when I started the call, I said last two years we grew our volume by 45%, right? So this volume growth came in the backdrop of very, very challenging environment, right, which was macro country GDP level, then elections, pre-election post-election. And thirdly, our own industry, which was going through massive down-cycle, right, steel prices crashed by 25% in last 18 months. So that’s what depressed the margins. But good part was that we could — we could build the market-share at a level now where we stand, we can command 5%, 6% premium over our next competitor, right? So this gives us confidence that maintaining 20% volume growth like how we did in last two years, my EBITDA spread will continue to improve. Plus we are — all the new capacities which are coming up, they are also a lot of strategically located, whether it is new Virgin markets like East India, Bhuj — for exports or it is international sales from Dubai plant or it is entry into new product segments, right? So we are ensuring that the existing capacity doesn’t get cannibalized, which could again depress the margins. The incremental growth is coming from new geographies, new products, right, better sales mix, which will continue to improve our EBITDA spreads going-forward. So EBITDA margin will continue to improve without stress on the volume because volume is coming from new geographies, new markets, new products, new plants?
Unidentified Participant
Understood. And lastly, on the spread, which has increased now between the Patra, the primary and the secondary spread, which is very much favorable for quite some time, two to three, I think that’s gone up to 7% to 8%. What’s the action that you’ve taken on-ground? Can we hear more about it that what are you doing additionally in the commoditized segment?
Anubhav Gupta
So, right now, see, I mean, INR7,000 INR8,000 per tonne spread is pretty much comfortable, right, to continue to work with, okay. I mean, we face challenge when the spreads increase beyond INR15,000 INR20,000 per ton, right? Under INR10,000 per tonne, the market is well-positioned to go towards HR coil based structural steel tubes, right? Obviously, in month of October, November when spreads when the gap came down, there was a boost of sales in that segment. But like I said that this general segment of 1.5 million tonne what we are doing, right? So our growth is coming beyond this 1.5 million ton, right, which does not get affected from sponge iron steam pipes, whether it is coated, whether it is rust crew, whether it is heavy, whether it is light, whether it is gal, right, all these new products, Dubai market doesn’t export market, right? So our incremental growth is coming from products and market-share and pipes don’t impact the volume, which you said.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. Lastly, in case you can highlight on the Dubai market, what’s the kind of opportunity we heard you saying on US-Canada opportunities also. You know who are the existing players servicing on those markets currently? What’s the growth rate like in those markets opportunity size, some flavor there could be helpful.
Sanjay Gupta
Earlier the US and the Canada market is catered by the Korean and Japanese means. But after government, they equal the duties. The US card duty structured have structured, UE, Korea and Japan play equal for us year. So once all of suddenly the USK both market and we are getting good license. Number two, in the Europe market euro or dollars may go for a, it’s close to 1.14 k euro is going to be dollar. So Dubai market is going to be bought for us in Europeka. Europe, we have already settled and we are dispatching 5,000 to 6,000 ton material for month. But US and Canada we just started the supply a segment amount, we are very bullish is the same coaching there. Cook both actually smaller car to give the average quality is well-accepted in the Saudi market, the UAE market and the Europe market. So doing a US and Canada problem another year. On behalfa, we have a good capacity — already they have a category of 3 lakh tonne. Our go line July to pass so once you have got to put some create. Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Understood, sir. Thanks a lot, sir. And all the very best.
Sanjay Gupta
Thank you.
Operator
The next question comes from the line of Akshay from AK Investment. Please go-ahead.
Akshay
Hello. Good evening, sir. Congratulations on the strong set of numbers. My first question is based on our capacity expansion. So in the initial remarks, you have said that we are — by 2030, our plan is to do 10 million tonnes and we will be come up into different segments like SS pipes and all these things as there are already other players in tech segment. So what is the rationale by coming in that segment and would our margins be complement because of that?
Anubhav Gupta
No, which segment can you please repeat for what segment are you talking about?
Akshay
Stainless tin pipes and other segments?
Anubhav Gupta
Yes, yes, you have to repeat the question.
Akshay
Like sir said that we will come up with 2.5 lakh tons of four different things and other things which you have mentioned. So if there are — yes, so if there are other players in this segment, sir. So what is the rational in that by doing the expansion in that segment.
Anubhav Gupta
So okay. So that is — that is our entry into super specialty tubes, right? We are — we are going to come up with very, very small investments, right, 250,000 ton into four different categories, okay. So putting up and investing a small amount of INR30 crore INR400 crore than testing the market right into a new product segment. As a company, we decided to do that, right? Our right to win will be, of course, I mean, not immediate because we will start with small investment, right. We’ll ensure that there is no strain on the balance sheet. The capex initial capex amounts are very, very minimal. We get into the space, we make our mark, right, then we scale-up the business if we are able to have right to win. But initial right to win for the industry is that in these super specialty tubes, we are now going to do run-of-the-mill products like plain API or plain stainless pipe kind of products. This will be special specialty products where you will have where the competition is very, very less or there will be only a limited number of players existing in the country and there will be more of import substitution. So we’ll be very prudent in identifying these spaces and deploying capital.
Akshay
Okay, understood, sir. And sir, my second question is based on our competitive scenario in steel tube industry. So obviously, we are the market-leader in that industry. But I want to understand that what is the entry barrier in our industry and there are many big brands like Tata Steel and JSW. So I have seen the steel tubes of Tata Steel as well as other players as well. So are there any — are there any threat if they expand their capacities and they create some market-share in that segment?
Sanjay Gupta
See, I guess, I mean, if I would leave it to you to analyze, okay, what are the anti-barriers here in our industry. We good indeed. Most — we can’t anything comment on this subject because a lot of matter, they are also supplied to us for the raw-material. I can volume say the Tata still is bought one they are very well-organized company. So they never throw the metal in the market in the low-margin. The low-margin through, there is no problem at all. And Kapna, the product in India, Marathna, other product range or we don’t want to discuss. Thank you.
Akshay
Okay, not an issue, sir, not an issue. And my last question is the blended EBITDA. So what is our target for blended EBITDA in FY ’26?
Sanjay Gupta
About INR5,000 a ton.
Akshay
Okay. Thank you so much, sir. Thanks for answering the questions.
Operator
Thank you. Participants, please restrict yourselves to one question. If you have any further questions, you may rejoin the queue. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Pallav Agarwal from Antique Stock Broking. Please go-ahead.
Pallav Agarwal
Yeah, good evening and congratulations on a good set of numbers. So just on the positioning of APL Apollo. So what was the branding expenses that we incurred this year and what are we planning to incur the next couple of years?
Sanjay Gupta
So advertisement spending we did for the full-year was around INR31 crores servicing data. And this year it should be mild growth, not much.
Pallav Agarwal
Okay. And also on —
Operator
I’m sorry to interrupt, Palav, that was your question. I would request you to rejoin the queue if you have any more. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vikas from PhillipCapital. Please go-ahead.
Vikas
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a very good set of numbers. Sir, I just wanted to understand since our cash burn is much lower than the cash generation, what is — what are our plans with the cash? And if any, if you could throw some light on if promoter billing is willing to increase their stake since it has been very low.
Anubhav Gupta
This is one good problem to solve, right? But in general, see, I mean as part of our capital deployment strategy, if we earn $100 EBITDA, our operating cash-flow is also $100, right? And we have created four buckets to utilize this cash. One bucket will go for tax payments. One bucket will go for dividends. One bucket will go for capex because we are a growth-oriented company and one bucket we’ll see if cash piles up on the books and then we’ll see how to reward shareholders. But I think over the next two, three years, we will have also these liabilities, which are current liabilities, we should have enough fixed deposits, enough cash — surplus cash on the books to match these current liabilities and then we’ll see what to do with the surplus cash.
Vikas
Noted. On the promoter space, any further insights?
Anubhav Gupta
No, nothing as of now.
Vikas
Thank you. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Garbi Singh, an Individual Investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, sir, thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on great performance. Sir, my question was that could you please elaborate on your statement that MD has surrendered salaries and a bit more on how — what is leading to commanding 5% higher-margin even in the general products?
Anubhav Gupta
See, I mean said that I mean his friend has always been working on the cost, right? I mean in — during one of our discussion leadership, we were sitting and we were having intense discussion on how to cut-down cost, right? So employee cost is something which is coming a bit higher because we have expanded our capacity ahead of time. And so right now, the employee cost per ton, which is around INR1,000 rupee and our own — our own target is to bring it down to INR600 per ton. So just took the lead and he wanted to set by an example and he said, okay, let me surrender my salary, all my commissions for FY ’25 and FY ’26, right? And I encourage everyone to come out with innovative ideas and thoughts, right, how we can reduce the cost per ton, right, and bring down every cost, not only employee, but work on every front. So that’s what he kind of decided to surrender his salary for FY ’25 and FY ’26.
On the second question on the premium on our general products, yes, I mean, again, this is the strength of brand APL Apollo, which has been built-in the market, which has been built over a number of years. And the first realization we did in 2020 when we move to cash and. The second realization is in 2025 when we increased our prices for general products by 5% versus our competitor and we are able to sustain that. So — and we are confident that we should be able to sustain this because of our ever-improving servicing to our distributors ever expansion of our product portfolio and innovation and ever improvement of our distribution network.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
The next question comes from the line of Udit from YES Securities. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Hi, Dean. Congratulations on great set of numbers. Just one question, if you can highlight what would be our EBITDA per tonne for export markets. So right now from Dubai, how much is it and what could be the target that we are aiming from Boj when we start those operations?
Sanjay Gupta
Hi, good evening. EBITDA per ton is for the Dubai export market is close to INR7 to INR1,000 per ton. And from India, there is — right now the margin is not good at maybe INR2,000 crore per tonne, but there is a check it. There is a reason the local steel prices are high than the actually import price. So now we are importing some quantity for the exporting the material, then we should think our margin is go to INR8,000 to INR10,000 crores per ton. Our import what we are exporting, our import is arrived in the month of June, July — July. From the Q2, our margin of export is also from India is going to INR7 to INR1,000 per tonne or maybe 8,000 crore 9,000 crees per tonne. But till now we do not get the cheaper raw-material our margin is INR0,000 to INR3,000 per ton.
Unidentified Participant
Got it, sir. Thank you, sir. And all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Capital. Please go-ahead.
Anupam Gupta
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Just one question on the volume guidance. So 20% full-year is understandable, but how are you seeing the near-term, let’s say first-quarter or first-half? Have you seen an uptick in-demand already or we are still looking at second-half being the major part of volumes for this year?
Sanjay Gupta
Right now we are on right on-track. April is just slightly little bit from our target of like every year the April is on the downside. We are less than our target volume target by 5% to 6% and May is going good. So I don’t think we — like first-half, Deepak we can do 18%, 17, lak to 18 lakh ton. In the second-half, we crossed 2 million ton.
Anupam Gupta
Understood. Thank you.
Operator
The next question comes from the line of Dixit from Systematix Group. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Hi, good evening. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. My question is primarily what can be — what’s your EBITDA per ton guidance on 20% volume growth each year. Also to be taking care of the fact that if at all steel prices fall again, what is more likely a sustainable rate of EBITDA per ton or is there a chance that once again, when we push higher volumes and then our focus goes to volume growth, could there be a scenario where we again push discounts to the market to gain a better market-share? So more like the question that I think is also around sustainable EBITDA per ton guidance.
Anubhav Gupta
For FY ’26, guidance is near INR5,000 rupees a ton and over the next few years, EBITDA spread should continue to improve beyond INR5,000 per ton because of improving sales mix and increasing sales from international markets and markets and getting the operating leverage plus working on the cost-reduction factors. So we are confident that EBITDA spreads should improve year-on-year for the next three, four years. As far as steel downcycle is concerned, we don’t see that steel could crash again by 25% as it did in last 15 months. So since we don’t foresee such sharp decline, it should not lead to any decline in our EBITDA spreads. 4%, 5% increase decrease does not impact us at all.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. And if I could squeeze in one more question, out-of-the total volume, what would be there?
Operator
Could you please could you please rejoin the queue if you have any more questions? Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Bhavin Pande from Athena Investments. Please go-ahead.
Bhavin Pande
Hi, congratulations on great set of numbers. So when we look at heavy product in the Apollo Structural segment, EBITDA per ton is around INR8,700. So how do we look at the flow rate on a sustainable basis?
Sanjay Gupta
It should be in the same range INR8,000 to INR9,000 a ton.
Bhavin Pande
Okay. Thank you
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mayank Bandari from Asian Markets. Please go-ahead.
Mayank Bandari
Thanks for the opportunity. Just wanted to have a look at the consol number for earlier, is it possible for you to share what was the PAT contribution from the APL Apollo building products, that is your Raipur plant. The number for last year was almost INR26 crore of the PAT.
Anubhav Gupta
Let’s take it off of the call, please. You can reach-out to us.
Mayank Bandari
Okay. And just one more thing I wanted to understand from the industry competition perspective as we are seeing that lot of players have come and capacity, wise there seems to be capacity overcapacity in the industry, would you agree to that point to at this moment?
Anubhav Gupta
It could be in the general segment, but not in the value-added products where we have dominant market leadership.
Mayank Bandari
Thank you. Okay, okay. Thank you. That’s it from this.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shwatha Dixit from Systematix Group. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, thank you for taking my question again. Could you define what is the total share of exports as of now, including the exports from India and Dubai both and how does it — how is it likely to pan-out in the next two years? What’s the target to take the proportion of export to?
Anubhav Gupta
As of now, we are at 6% and target is to take it beyond 10%.
Operator
Does that answer your question?
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Deepak Pande from Capital. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, just want to understand you have mentioned Charity in capacity.
Operator
I’m sorry to interrupt, Deepak, your voice is breaking. Could you please come to an area where the network is better?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, am I audible now?
Operator
Yes, much better. Thank you.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, in the slide 11, we have mentioned about some new specialty tube capacity. So can you just throw some light on it? And what sort of EBITDA per ton are we looking at here?
Anubhav Gupta
So here the focus will be to service some industries like oil and gas, refineries and mechanical tubes, right, could be some highly-specialized waterline pipes. We are still working on it, right, but that’s the vision till 2030 that we must-have some presence outside structural tunes which could be like 5% to 10% of our total capacity by then maybe in next six months we will have a better answer to this that what’s the game plan, extra game plan yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Krishnam Saraf, an Individual Investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. I’m a little bit new to this industry. I just have a basic question as to why don’t — why doesn’t anyone hit their steel exposure in the market?
Anubhav Gupta
You have to say it again, please?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, the question is why don’t players hedge their steel inventory exposure in the market?
Anubhav Gupta
There is no such product to do this. So there is no, there is no way, there is no way, there is no increment to do this.
Operator
Okay. Since the participant has dropped off, we’ll move on to the next participant. The question comes from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFN Capital. Please go-ahead.
Anupam Gupta
Yeah. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir. So you a very strong cost-reduction target for employee cost from 1,000 to 600 over the next few years. So obviously, next year, Mr not getting will help. But let’s say you are still looking at a meaningful greenfield capacity expansion coming up over the next two, three years. This will add to your cost and this will again depend on how fast those capacities get utilized in terms of cost-reduction. So is this 600 actually doable over the next couple of years or and what will enable you to drive this over the next couple of years apart from operating leverage. Is there any other lever apart from operating leverage can help you drive this for?
Sanjay Gupta
Anupam, hi, good evening. Salary cost to reduction of salary cost from INR1,000 to INR600 is not a good big tax. This is just a tax of automation and like [Foreign Speech] we have to take to 100% and some automation. All the three mixtures got the result.
Anupam Gupta
This is helpful sir.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr Anuga of Gupta to give his closing remarks.
Anubhav Gupta
Thanks everyone for dropping by. Look-forward to talk to you again during quarter one FY ’26 earnings call. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Batlivala and Karani Securities India Private Limited, that concludes this conference. You may now disconnect your lines.