Anupam Rasayan India Ltd (NSE: ANURAS) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 24, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Anand S Desai — Managing Director
Gopal Agrawal — Chief Executive Officer
Amit Khurana — Chief Financial Officer
Vishal Thakkar — Deputy Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Krishna Patel — Analyst
Meet Gada — Analyst
Ankur Periwal — Analyst
S. Ramesh — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Q4FY25 Anupama Rasaya India Limited earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Krishna Patel from EY. Thank you. And over to you ma’ am.
Krishna Patel — Analyst
Thank you Hamshad. And good afternoon everyone. Welcome to Anupam Rasayan India Limited Q4FY25 and FY25 earning conference call to take us through the results and to answer your questions. Today we have with us the management of Anupam rasayan Represented by Mr. Anand Desai, the Managing Director. Mr. Gopal Abrawar, Chief Executive Officer. Mr. Amit Khurana, Chief Financial Officer and Mr. Vishal Bhattar, Deputy Chief Financial Officer. The discussions that we may have today may contain certain forward looking statements relating to future events and future performances. Numerous factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward looking statements.
Please note the audio of this earnings call is a copyright material of Anupam Prasai in India and cannot be copied, rebroadcasted, attributed in press or media without specific written consent of the company. With this I would like to now hand over the call to Mr. Anand Desai, the Managing Director for his opening comments. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Anand S Desai — Managing Director
Thank you, Krishna. Good afternoon everyone and a warm welcome to the Q4FY24 earnings call of Honorable Assam. Before we start I would like to express my grief on the recent events that took place in Kashmir. It is with great pride and gratitude that I take this opportunity to thank our honorable Prime Minister and our armed forces for working day and night to protect us and ensure the sustained sovereignty of our nation. Let me begin by sharing an overview of our performance in the quarter and FY 2025. The considerable revenue for the quarter Q4FF NSI stood at INR 506 crores.
Registering a growth of 22% YoY and a 31% CoQ concess revenue for the full year FY 2548 crores resisting a declining growth of 4% YoY. This performance was supported by growth in pharma and polymer segments coupled with strong performance and standpack margins have remained consistent this quarter reflecting our focus on operational efficiency. And a favorable product mix. While the first half of FY25 was subdued due to weak macro conditions. I am pleased to share that the second half has shown clear signs of recovery, particularly in Q4 of FY25 where we have seen meaningful improvements with sales increases both year on year and sequentially.
Also. This marks a positive turn in momentum and reinforces the growth is revenue coming back While working capital remains a challenge with the recent slowdown in sales, improved working capital intensity is going to be one of the key focus areas of management. Along with sustaining the revenue growth that we have seen this quarter, we anticipate a gradual using of working capital. Indian City this improved revenue in FR26, both inventory levels and receivables are expected to reduce meaningfully over the course of the year. Also, majority of our customers are large multinational companies who have undertaken rationalization of supply chains and working capital at their end over the last 18 to 24 months and which is now largely complex where we have supported them.
As business growth resumes, customers shall be able to reciprocate by supporting us in the optimizing our workspace cycle. Going forward, our pharma and polymer segments continue to be strong pillars of our performance, contributing steadily to our top line and aligning with our strategy to diversify the revenue base. The agrochemical sector which faced demand challenges in the earlier part of the year has started to show signs of revival. This is further strengthened by the ramp up of a recently launched key molecule in the agrochemical cycle coupled with the recovery in volumes of existing molecules. In terms of geography, the Japan market continues to lead our growth with strong customer engagement and long term visibility.
We are also excited about the opportunities emerging from the US market with recent LOIs and signed contracts with US based MNCs. We expect meaningful contribution to begin from FY26. This is in line with the strategy of deepening presence in high value markets. Geographical Diversification with this I would like to now hand over the call to our CEO Mr. Gopal Agarwal to take you through the business and operational updates in greater detail. Over to you Gopalba.
Gopal Agrawal — Chief Executive Officer
Thank you Anandhai. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us today. As Anand highlighted Q4 makes a clear shift in momentum. Our pharma and polymer segment continues to show strong traction supported by new molecule launches new growing custom demand. In FY25 we launched over nine molecules, five in pharma, three in agro and one in polymer segment. The electronic segment, the agrochemical segment which has been subdued for several quarters is showing early signs of recovery among geographies. Japan continues to lead our global expansion driven by long term contracts and a robust product pipeline. Japan contributed 17% of sales in Q4 acquired 25 and we expect it to be over 30% of sales in FY26.
On back of recently signed LOI contract and additional customers, I’m also pleased to share that we are seeing strong traction in United States having recently signed a contract and LOI with a US based for a high performance specialty chemical used in critical power application like defense and aerospace. This strengthens our foothold in US and we believe this opportunity will begin to contribute meaningfully and be over 10% of our sales in FY26. As of now our order book stands at around 14,646 crores spread over 4 to 10 years out of which 2,100 crores worth of MRIs and contract have already been commercialized contributing to over 30% of our revenue in FY25.
Majority of the balance LOI and contract are expected to be commercialized in FY26. With all these levers in place across new products geographies, strong order book and enhanced capacity, we remain confident of a strong performance going forward. We remain confident in our ability to return to historical growth rates prior to the showdown with this, I would like now to hand over the call to our CFO Mr. Amit Pura for a detailed update on financial performance. Over to you Amit Zaid.
Amit Khurana — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you Gopal Bhai and good afternoon everyone. I will now walk you through the financial performance for the quarter and the year ended March 31, 2025. Starting with the CapEx update, as of March 31 we have completed nearly 670 crores of the planned CapEx, two manufacturing facilities already commercialized and one new manufacturing facility ready for commercialization in the upcoming quarter. This will significantly enhance our production capacity and support the next phase of growth. Further, we expect our debt levels to decline going forward. The proceeds from warrant conversion expected in FY26 will be utilized to repay long term debt.
Approximately 185 crores of long term debt will be settled through this route, significantly aiding to deleverage the balance sheet. Speaking about the segment wide performance, life science related Specialty Chemicals contributed 84.4% and 86.7% of the total revenue as on Q4, FY25 and FY25 respectively. The Pharma segment revenue grew 41% and 92% YoY in Q4, FY25 and FY 25 respectively, reaching 21.9% of the sales in FY25 on account of 10 new product launches in Pharmaceutical in FY24 and 5 new product launches in FY25. Performance Material contributed 16.6% and 13.3% of the total revenue as on q4, FY25 and FY25respectively.
This segment revenue grew 83% and 18% YoYo in Q4, FY25 andFY25 respectively on account of 2 new molecules launches in FY24 and 1 product in FY25. With that I now hand over to our Deputy CFO Mr. Vishal Thakkar to share detailed quarterly and annual financial performance over to you Vishal Bhai.
Vishal Thakkar — Deputy Chief Financial Officer
Thank you Amit Bhai. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for being with us today, especially on a Saturday afternoon. Really thank you for that. I’d like to share some of the key performance highlights for the quarter and the year ended March 31, 2025. Before we open the floor for Q and A session, I hope you have had the opportunity to review the detailed presentation and the results that we had submitted to the exchanges and posted on our website. Kindly note our numbers for the quarter and the full year are on consolidated basis and they include 10 fact numbers as well.
Let me first discuss the consolidated financial highlights for the quarter ended March 31, 2025. Operating revenue for Q4FY25 was at Rupees 500 crores as compared to 401 crores in Q4FY24 up 25%. Yoyo EBITDA including other income was at Rupees 150 crores in Q4FY25 as compared to Rupees 105 crores in Q4FY24 UP 43% yoy. This translates to EBITDA of 30% margin. EBITDA margin of 30% in this quarter. Profit after tax was at Rupees 63 crores in Q4 at 525 as compared to Rupees 41 crores in Q4FY24, up 56%. Y o y top 10 customers contributed about 71% of our total revenue in Q4FY25.
Talking about the full year financials, operating revenue for FY25 was at Rupees 1437 crores as compared to Rupees 11475 crores in FY24 down 2.6% yoy EBITDA including other Income was at Rupees 412 crores in FY25 as compared to Rupees 411 crores in FY24 up 0.4% bio y. This would translate to 29% EBITDA margin in this period. Profit after tax was at rupees 160 crores in FY25 as compared to rupees 167 crores in FY20. With that we will open for the open the floor for Q and A. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press Star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Meet Gadda from MK Global. Please go ahead.
Meet Gada
Congratulations team on achieving highest ever standalone quarterly ebitda. I have couple of questions. Firstly, I see that your quarterly revenue from the agro business vertical has nearly doubled. Doubled as compared to the average of last three quarters. Amidst this challenging macro environment I want to understand that what has led to such growth all of a sudden and whether is it because of any LOI which has kicked in and if you can throw light on what product you have sold and whether should we assume similar quarterly run rate for FY26 as well?
Vishal Thakkar
Hi Neet, Good afternoon. Thank you for this session and thanks for appreciating the results first. Yes, as we mentioned and as Anandai and Gopalbai in the booking demands also mentioned that the demand in the agrochemic segment is coming back and that’s what we are seeing. So the volumes are coming back. And especially Anandai mentioned in his opening remark that there is one of the key molecules which has been also ramped up. The ramp up of that molecule has happened. It’s a high value, high value critical molecule. It’s an AI molecule. We had signed an LOI in Q4 2022 and that LOI product is now getting executed and the ramp up is happening for that product.
If you see that this AI is is having a pricing of triple digit in dollar terms in kg and also this is a large molecule with 2,800 metric ton of you know, the total market size. Our customer is expecting around 5 to 10% of revenue, sorry market share of that and that should really give us a very strong, you know, revenue in 26 and going forward we expect that to this molecule should be one of our leading molecules which will contribute a triple digit revenue in terms of growth in coming days.
Meet Gada
Got it sir. Thank you so much. Secondly, on the recent NOI with elementium materials for supply of chemicals in advanced electrolyte critical for EV batteries. Can you tell me something more on this customer product and the product potential and will it be beneficial for the Indian battery ecosystem as well? And you’ve mentioned that if this product is successful, you will be putting up a plant. So how much capex will be required there and what will it be a dedicated plant or not?
Vishal Thakkar
So yes, this is another one which is a very very unique and a very marquee noi that we assigned with Elementium Elementum is an MIT Back then MIT founded company which is really focusing on high end electrolytes for the battery as the lithium ion battery side which is the largest selling technology battery in the battery technology in the world. So lithium ion is the largest one by far catering to in terms of new age batteries. If you look at it, 70 to 80% of the batteries today would be lithium or its derivatives. And this company is really focusing on providing electrolytes which are of new age high end which includes the storage capacity which improves the time to charge, which improves the life cycle.
So the number of cycles that the battery can take will be higher. The safety parameters are far more improved. So all this really matters. As you are aware, it will matter for any new age batteries that is there which may be used for TVs or for your energy storage, static energy storage or for your mobile batteries and various other applications. So in each of them the lithium ion comes into play and in those batteries, this electrolyte and the platforms of electrolytes that aluminum is manufacturing will be critical and enhancing one. And which is what Anupam is going to provide.
One of the strong fluorinated product which has been developed and now we are commercializing it. We are expecting to commercialize it in 2026 will be will start with a decent sized volume. But as we had mentioned in our announcement as well that the initial volumes will be provided from our client. But as we go they are looking at a very significant ramp up in terms of the volumes and that for the larger volume because we are expecting 10x higher volumes from us going after 26 onwards post 26. So that time we will need to have capacity added.
Yes, we can have that capacity within our plants existing plants as well and reassigning the plant capacities one architects. Once we finalize those, we will share with with you. As well in terms of the costing and other specific details of those. But this again as we have been talking about, this can be a very, very large product for us. This will be if I believe what my customers has projected to us, this should give us a very strong, that one of the blockbuster products for us going forward.
Meet Gada
So is there any competition for this product from China or anything of that sort? Or is it a patented kind of.
Vishal Thakkar
So let me, let me, let me. Let me take it in two parts. One, this is, this is a, this is a patented one. This is basically developed these elementum. So there is a strong ip, there is a strong IP protection there. I would make that statement because of their process and knowledge. And the second thing is we had seen in the recent past, especially last three to six months that there is a strong relook that all the, all the purchasing countries are having a relook on the supply chain. Supply chain sourcing in terms of supply chain sourcing geographies. And if you look at the Lois that we find with Korea, Japan and this as well is a clear indication that we as a country are becoming a preferred choice.
So. With elementum we are the primary supplier for them for this product. And again this is a product which is again a chlorinated product where you know our vertical integration really comes in very strongly from tenpac and the addition of tenpac as well. So we believe that we have a very strong edge on our product.
Meet Gada
Got it, got it. So is there a possibility that you can add up more products on battery, chemicals front what other competitors are doing?
Vishal Thakkar
Definitely there are, there are slew of products that we are working on. And please appreciate that all these products if you look at it largely are dependent upon fluorine also as one of the moiety in the product configuration which ensures that there are limited number of players that would be really be able to play the full vertical integrated project, you know, vertical integrated supply solutions for the end consumers. And that also leads us to having a stronger amount when we get to the customers. But also more importantly the R and D focus that we have, where we have a slew of products which we are developing in this category will also come into play strongly because as you as you know that you start with a one base molecule or a KSM and then start building up.
And that’s what we have been doing it as we had mentioned earlier in our strategy. So that will continue to really leverage our R and D investments or the developments that we have done. And as we go we will see a lot More interesting products coming out from here.
Meet Gada
Got it. Got it. A few more questions if I may. Nearly 8000 crores worth of. Nearly 8000 crores worth of NOI will commercialize in SCY25 FY26 and start contributing to the top line. So based on the average contractual period nearly thousand to twelve hundred crores of annual revenues can be expected. What is your outlook on this number?
Vishal Thakkar
So as Gopal Bhai also mentioned in terms of commercialization of the LOIS and the revenue contribution we saw that the 20% of the current revenue is contributed from the lois commercialized lois and you rightly identified that. Yes, it would be in the range of the number that you spoke in terms of the fully ramped up potential of the current and near term commercialized that are expected to be commercialized in near term. And we believe that in the near to medium term that full ramp up should come in which would ensure that the revenue growth that we have been anticipating for us or projecting for us organic is looking more robust.
As I was mentioning that the capex has also been completed. So we have enough capacity to really ramp up those Lois and that would mean that we will have a strong continuous revenue growth that we can expect from here on. Is what I can say here coming from a. From the loi as we said that the number that you are saying in terms of revenue per year I think we should be able to add to our revenue base in next two to four months. Two to four years time. Two to three years.
Meet Gada
So any growth guidance for the standalone top line for FY26.
Vishal Thakkar
Okay. I think Gopal Bhai indicated that. Let me put it in a very simple terms that we should be coming back to our historical growth rates which have been in the range of 25 to 30% plus. And I think we should be able to continue to see that kind of a growth from 26 onwards.
Meet Gada
Got it. With similar EBITDA margin.
operator
Sorry to interrupt sir, but I may request you to rejoin the question queue for follow up question.
Vishal Thakkar
It’s okay, let me answer this question and then we can take it up. Okay. So maybe the margins will be. Will be quite similar if you really feel like as we had also mentioned historically that you know we are we typically look at on a CVC side, we typically look at a margin profile which is consistent and current margin which you look at is also being in the similar range and we expect that the newer products should also give us a similar kind of A margin range 20 to 28% which is declining. I think that should that.
That looks fair too. Got it.
Meet Gada
And on the tax incident side, what.
Amit Khurana
Should we build in for the next year?
Meet Gada
I didn’t hear on the trade, what should be built in for next year?
Vishal Thakkar
Tax rate. Yeah, the average access that you’ve seen in the past, I think you can pick that up for the next year. We should be in the similar range.
Meet Gada
Thank you so much for answering my question.
operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind the participants to press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Ankur from Axis Bank. Please go ahead.
Ankur Periwal
Yeah. Hi team, good afternoon and thanks for the opportunity. First question on the growth here, year on year basis, I’m referring standalone numbers. Year on year basis, we are seeing 20% degree growth. What is the volume number here in terms of how we have performed in volume terms for the quarter and for the full year.
Vishal Thakkar
So largely this degrowth which you see on an annual basis is largely on account of volume. Very, very, very limited will be based on the price in fact. So that’s 1, 2. If I were to put for the Q4. Q4 if you see we have marginally grown from a year on year basis. And again that’s largely volumes. Price, average revenue per ton has increased marginally. But largely it is the volume which is. Which has driven the. The revenue growth or the revenue degrowth. Both in both the cases and.
Ankur Periwal
And what was the volume growth in FY24?
Vishal Thakkar
If you can, you know, help us.
Ankur Periwal
In mind that.
Vishal Thakkar
I will have to pull that out.
Ankur Periwal
So there was, there was no realization that decline in FY24 is where I’m coming from. So this number, the revenue.
Vishal Thakkar
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. If I remember well, I think price has not been a large factor in terms of either cases. Both when we ramped up or when we ramped up largely it was this volume which has been really, really there. Sure, some bit of it may be because of the product mix and hence, but not from a like to like escalation of any price movements.
Ankur Periwal
Sure. So Vishal, as I understand you know we have a pass through clause with our customers wherein any increase or decrease in dominant prices is immediately passed through. I’m just wondering, you know, across the industry everyone is showing a pricing decline here given the decline that we are seeing from China, whether excess capacity or in entries or whatever. But in our case you mentioned entire revenue decline is volume driven. There is no pricing impact. So there is no pricing decline for our raw materials per se for the last year.
Vishal Thakkar
So again as I said largely as I said that maybe funding. I’m not trying to leave that for that. Right. But yeah largely again I had. I’ve been been holding up a level of inventory also and that also is there where. Where it is the. The reason why you saying the. And that my prices have not been too much impacted also. Second thing, please appreciate that my RMC in the whole total costing will be around about 30 to 40% at best. So the impact of price of RM really affecting my sales price is also so much less.
1, 2, 3. If you look at it for me the average realization has been what I was saying that the average realization over the last two years has been flattish because the prices have been largely stabilized. In the segment that I am talking about today there is a small bit of a movement in the input raw material like the nitrobenzene or otherwise but that does not significantly impact my final output of the price that really drives the whole 20 30% you know revenue change in my thousand 300 crores kind of revenue is what I’m trying to say.
Sure.
Ankur Periwal
And when you guided that you know we will be going back to 25% plus out of revenue growth. This is also all volume led so there is no pricing impact neither in any inventory. You know, high cost inventory sitting there. Nothing of that sort. And neither on the revenue side. Right. Just confirmed that.
Vishal Thakkar
So yes. So I think let me take that opportunity to make one statement before I make so whatever is the inventory that I am holding I will be able to. I will be able to pass it on as I have been able to pass it on in the past as well including graphs a few years when when the price volatility works. So so one that I’m making that statement as I said as we go. Yes volume led growth will be there because we are introducing new products in pharma polymer and the performance chemicals business. And also volume growth will come back from the agro side as well where the old molecules which were which had a lower volume of taking last two years are also we are seeing that is an addition to coming back in addition to what I talked about one of the new AI that we launched that also will continue to ramp up.
But yes largely it is volume on a light product to product basis it is volume. There is no repricing of my existing inventory that is there. Sure.
Ankur Periwal
And just a clarification there the incremental raw material also that you might be buying in there is no significant pricing increase or decrease versus the channel inventory Update that we have.
Vishal Thakkar
I’ll tell you what, if you, if I see and see one product to product it may be maybe that. Of course we may be able to see that in one product. When I look at the portfolio, if I look at the portfolio of my RM if you see for last 8 quarters I have not seen any significant change which will really determine too much of my change in my, my final product. There has been in some products, some categories the volume, the prices have dropped, some categories the prices have gone up. But on a total basis when I look at it, that itself is not moving significantly.
And if it is not moving significantly, its translation to that in my revenue is going to be limited is what I’m trying to say.
Ankur Periwal
Okay, fair enough. Second bit on the lois that we have so 14,600 odd crores as highlighted in a PPT, let’s say I’m taking an average of seven years for them to fructify. So they will take 2,000 crores of annual revenue run rate at the 20% contribution from lois that Gopal Bhai highlighted earlier. I presume was on the standalone basis. Is that right?
Vishal Thakkar
True. Yeah. So let’s say 200 crores is already there.
Ankur Periwal
So what we are saying is 1800 crores of ink incremental revenue is going to come from these lois plus the 700 crore plus base that we will have which will grow at whatever pace. Is that the right assumption?
Vishal Thakkar
Yes. Yes. But we have to be mindful that all that will take its own time to first commercialize and then to ramp up. But the five years out, let’s say.
Ankur Periwal
Let’S say four years out or five years out, you are looking at a two and a half thousand crores of this revenue. Based on the current LOI itself. What is the right time? 3 years or 5 years.
Vishal Thakkar
So see there is a sequence sequencing of it. The 22 number. So the LOI that we did in 2022, those have come to 200 crores. Broadly that kind of a number. Right now that number will ramp up as we go. Right. So next year that number. Sorry I’m using the wrong word but. So what I’m trying to say is that today around 200 crores is what I have done in this year which is largely from the LOI that we had signed in 2022. Now similarly the 2023 LOIs are expected to commercialize in 2026. Now if we take its time, two to three years to ramp it up to full.
I think if I look at all the numbers and I’m looking at all the noisy uncle, Most of my LOI should be commercialized in 26 and couple of them are in 2728. So from there two to three years is where you can really safely say that Yes I can. I should look at majority of my revenue of 2000 that you are talking. So I agree with you. It will be that time frame. Sure.
Ankur Periwal
And the current gross block, what is the peak revenue we can do so.
Vishal Thakkar
Current cross block if I add the new plant as well 3003000 plus to 3500 plus kind of a revenue is expected can be expected from these products. And also I would like to also mention that as we go as my, you know my product mix also evolves this number can expand as we go. But today I would with the current product portfolio I would look at this kind of a number 3,000 to 3,500 barring one that we had talked about the battery one where at some point I might have to do a capex. But let’s wait for that and I’ll come back as we finalize those on this.
Ankur Periwal
Sure. And lastly on the working capital, the inventory side as I understand for full year pharma polymer as you highlighted were the bigger growth drivers versus EC chem. And if I’m not wrong these are the ones which have lower working capital as a business cycle versus an ecm. Still we are seeing consistent increase in our inventory as well as receivable. So your thoughts there.
Vishal Thakkar
So Ankur, you rightly identified. I’ll. I’ll divide this into three different buckets. One, my agro volume that I had built up during my 23, 24 or 23 period. If you look at 2023 I was growing at around about 25 30% K every year. And that time I had a 1300 crores of revenue of which 70 odd percent was coming from the. Which would mean that around the 900 crores of agro revenue was there. And based on that I was building my inventory and supply chain which I have not got enough opportunity to liquidate. So that inventory is with me which now as we go forward we will be able to liquidate as the agro demand is coming back.
Two is on the pure and pure pharma and polymer if you really see, yes that will have a lower working capital intensity as we go, especially pharma where the inventory will be of a lower volume but the receivables will be of a longer tenor because Indian supplier, Indian buyers, you know how they are now here. The thing is that in last you know, 18 months I would have launched 15 new molecules for pharma and similarly five odd plus for performance chemicals. So if you look at those what inventories have to be built up because as you are aware that we will be doing a campaign kind of campaign production.
So those are there which as the volume ramp up of per product that will come into a more normalized inventory levels rather than the bunched up inventory that we are having to. So yes, as we go the working capital is expected is planned to working our intensity should reduce and with the increase in the revenue I have two advantages that will come up. One is my ability to liquidate and two is also the base volume increases significantly to justify the kind of working capital that we have invested in.
Ankur Periwal
So out of 550 day of inventory, 360 odd days is only agro inventory, 900 crores as you highlighted and the balance will be for rest of the business. That’s a fair.
Vishal Thakkar
I am not confirming that right now. But yes, principally it looks majority from there, but it looks largely for that I would I can look at the exact numbers and come back to you separately as well if that helps. Sure, that’s helpful.
Ankur Periwal
That’s it from my side. Thank you and all the rest.
Vishal Thakkar
Thank you. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one. Now the next question is from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmalbang Equities. Please go ahead.
S. Ramesh
Thank you and good afternoon and congratulations on your fourth quarter performance. So if you look at the first half of last year, revenues have beaten down compared to FY23. So on that base what should we expect in terms of normalized run rate for revenue per quarter in the first half. So I understand the big picture but in terms of the how the revenue will move over the next four quarters for the FY26 run rate, if you can give us some sense in terms of how that build will happen and then what is the kind of margin you should expect compared to whatever margins you have reported in fourth quarter which seems to be recovering.
So last year first quarter and second quarter margins were also depressed at 22% and 27%. So if you can put the numbers in context in terms of how you expect the revenue run rate to ramp up and what kind of margins we should expect for the first half that will be helpful.
Vishal Thakkar
Okay, so margins. Let me come to margins first Ramesh. I think the margins we would like to continue to guide at the numbers that we’ve been guiding in the past I Think that’s the number that we should look for. There are quarters when you will have a better margins because of the product mix. But lastly I will continue to guide at the numbers that we have been historically guiding in terms of inter year intra year revenue. Anyways, we have guided on, we have suggested what we are looking at in terms of our revenue in FY26.
However, if I split it into H1 and H2, I think H1 we should be looking at around about 40, 45% of the total year’s revenue which also is typically the kind of numbers that we have been historically seeing because of fertility of the industry. And H2 will be around about 55 to 60%. Both coupled because of the ramp up of my products also will take its time and the revenue will be there. And accordingly I would say that this is the broad guidance that I can suggest if you were to interpolate the quarterly numbers.
S. Ramesh
Okay, so you refer to some blockbusters in the AI and the EV related chemicals. So you ignore the capex required for the ramp up in the elementium JV and the AI. What is the kind of revenue potential you see say over the next two, three years in this AI and these battery chemicals over the next two to three years.
Vishal Thakkar
So the agro AI that we talked about, we do not need any FITX at all. And that as I had said, I don’t want to specifically pick a number and tell you that number, but I can tell you that this is, this market is in about 2800 metric tons. My customer is looking at around about 5 to 10% of that market in the new item. So if I, if I take that, we can do the math from there. This is a triple digit dollar dollar per ton product. Sorry, my bad, I’m sorry for that. So product dollar per kilogram product.
So you can, you can, you can really see the kind of potential that we are talking about here. And this is a long term product which we be looking at it for at least five, seven years and growing from there. Right. So that’s what I can, I can suggest. Let’s come to the elementium product. Elementum product again, just elementium again. This is a product which is a very high, a good high application that we can see on right where this year is where we will be, you know, starting the supply which will be a smaller volume supply which as we go forward we are expecting it to or the demand that has been given to us under the LOI that we will be, will be required to supply them 10x of what we will give them in CY26 as we had also suggested in our announcement, this number should be around about 350 to $400 million of revenue over.
So for this 350 $400 million of.
S. Ramesh
Revenue, what is the additional capex required? That is a bigger question.
Vishal Thakkar
I, I would request that rather than me making a ballpark number, I can give you those details in the next next call or when we are ready for the first thousand tons. We will not require any capex. So my 2026 demand will be service from this, this current capex or current capacities itself. Once we ramp up or when we have a a take or take contract is when we will will think about doing giving them a looking at the capex as we go.
S. Ramesh
Yeah. So just to belabor this point on this elementium order. So that total order size.
Vishal Thakkar
Yeah.
S. Ramesh
Out of the total order, what percentage can you execute with the current assets?
Vishal Thakkar
Current assets we can, we can do around about thousand tons which is around about 60, 70 crores per annum. We can easily do it. We can also squeeze a little bit more as we go. But right now because see always you do also see that the capex is also not always 0 and 1. I can expand my current capacity by debottlenecking and doing few things where I can go to 100 also. But yes, if I have to do the number that we are mentioning which is around about 70 or 70 to 80 million dollars. 70 to 90 million dollars kind of a revenue per annum, then we would definitely need to invest in capex.
S. Ramesh
Okay, now if I may move to the product mix. On the current mix you have shared.
Vishal Thakkar
On.
S. Ramesh
Agrochemicals, pharma, personal care and sociality. So what is the kind of growth we can expect in pharma and polymers? And then how would the numbers look for crop protection and personal care in FY26? You know, to put it in context in terms of the, you know, ramp up in molecules. You can give that, that will be useful.
Vishal Thakkar
So today if you look at pharma is around 20% plus of our revenue. We expect that that should be 20 to 25% of our revenue next year on an expanded basis. In terms of performance chemical it is around 15% plus in 2025. We should expect 25 plus percent of FY26 revenue expanded revenue base. My personal care should be around about 8 to 10% or plus or minus 1 or 2 percentage points and balance should be agro.
S. Ramesh
Okay. So the bulk of the growth will come from your pharma and polymers, that’s what you’re saying.
Vishal Thakkar
And agro will come back. So my lost volume, lost revenue, I should, I should come back reasonably so in terms of that.
S. Ramesh
So in terms of the delta and margins, except that you know, you’re talking about a ballpark 28%. But if you were to you know, look at the shift in product is impacting margins. So all the assignments obviously can’t give you the same margin. So the growth in pharma and polymer, how does it you know, impact the percentage margin movement say on a y basis in basis points.
Vishal Thakkar
So Ranaji, what I can say is pharma typically has a little lower EBITDA margin profile compared to the agro and polymer. Polymer has one of the stronger EBITDA margins. So if you look at it, the pharma and polymer tends to knock off to a large extent. And to that extent that the reason I’m more inclined to guide in the historical thing because agro will continue but pharma and polymer will knock each other off broadly leading to a similar margin profile.
S. Ramesh
Okay, so one last question on the working capital and the debt. So if everything works out well after this warrant proceeds are used to repay debt, what is your internal expectation on the net working capital base by 27? What is the kind of debt we should be looking at? If I. 27.
Vishal Thakkar
So see 27 if you ask me, we would be looking at coming to around about 200 odd days plus or minus 20 days of my working capital. That’s what I have. We as management has a target for us one long term that will be practically zero because that would that should largely be done through with the warrants conversion by this year itself. And the one more point that I can say that if you look at this half, we have generated an operating cash flow of around 140 crores. And if we are, if we are able to achieve our working capital target that we have set within two years, those cash flows should also be able to improve the the working capital utilization adjusted for the higher working capital requirement, absolute basis based on the higher revenue.
So that’s the math we will have to do. But largely what I’m saying is the term debt will be practically zero for us and working capital should be more coming to the lines that I had mentioned for that.
S. Ramesh
What about the short term debt that should be on 100 crores. So will you see any meaningful.
Vishal Thakkar
It is a balancing figure because the cash is likely going to be consumed only for the working capital. Right? Okay. So to that extent it is a Balancing figure to my, to my mind in terms of utilization of working capital because there is not too much of a repayment pressure on the term debt side because some debt is practically going to be zero. So largely it will go to.
S. Ramesh
So, so what is the networking capital days we should assume for the incremental revenue from the new contracts. So will it be in that 120, 150 days or it’ll be closer to the 200 days? That will help us understand the cash flows.
Vishal Thakkar
Yeah, you can take it at 150 to 180 days. Okay, that’s very useful.
S. Ramesh
Thank you very much and wish you all the best.
Vishal Thakkar
Thank you. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Meet Gadda from MK Global. Please go ahead.
Meet Gada
Thank you so much for the follow up. I just wanted to have a clarity on this AI product. I believe it is pyroxy cell phone and there is a patent expiry which is coming in so can you highlight. So you’ve given triple digit dollar guidance for that product. So what is the outlook if I may ask?
Vishal Thakkar
I would not want to make any statement on the name. I leave it for you because you guys are more educated and have better information. So I will leave it there and I hope you appreciate that and pardon me for not confirming or rejecting that. And two in terms of its regulatory approval, the regulatory approvals are taken care by the customer. They have validated these regulatory approvals from their end and post that they have given us an order and that gives us a fair bit of a confidence that the kind of guidance that they have given us and kind of commitments that they have shown are given us in terms of their readiness and willingness to offtake the volumes that they have projected.
We feel very confident of these revenues coming, coming, coming on stream and as as you could you would have seen it in our in. In in our performance as well that this year itself we have, we have done around about you know 6 odd million from that product and it should ramp up as we go got.
operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. As there are no further questions from the participants I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vishal Thakkar for closing comments.
Vishal Thakkar
Thank you everyone for your active participation and for your questions. We hope we have been able to answer all your queries and one more. Once again thank you very much for joining us on Saturday afternoon. Hope we have not kept you away from your lunch hopefully and in case if you have any other questions that either you missed or you have any further queries please reach out to our IR partner, Aunt Sunyan and they will connect with you offline. If there is anything more, please feel free to connect with them. Thank you very much. Have a good day.
operator
Thank you. On behalf of Kannupam Rasayan India limited that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.