Antony Waste Handling Cell Ltd (NSE: AWHCL) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 17, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Jose Jacob Kallarakal — Chairman & Managing Director
Mahendra A — Group President, Operations, Business Development & Diversification
Subramanian NG — Group Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Prashant Kothari — Analyst
Neerav Dalal — Analyst
Bhavya Gandhi — Analyst
Omkar Bhambid — Analyst
Payal Shah — Analyst
Ketan R Chheda — Analyst
Dhruv Raut — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q3 FY ’25 Antony Waste Handling Cell Limited Conference Call. We would like to mention that this conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on-date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star Ben Zero on your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr Jose Jacob, Chairman and Managing Director from the Antony Waste Handling Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal — Chairman & Managing Director
Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us for our Q3 FY ’25 earnings conference call. With me, I have Mr Anantula, our Group President, Operation, Business Development and Diversification; Mr, our Group CFO; and FDA, our Investor Relations Advisors. Our investor presentation of Q3 FY ’25 is now available on the stock exchange and on our company website. I’m pleased to share that for the Q3 FY ’25, we achieved a record-high quarterly operating revenue of INR221 crores, witnessing a strong growth of 15% compared to the same-period last year. Our total operating revenue, which includes income from the sale of recyclables and RDF refused by fuel, but excludes contract revenues stood at INR243 crores, reflecting a good growth of 12% on year-over-year basis. This excellent result was attributed to higher volumes, better compost RDF revenues, increased dipping fee and greater green energy generation from our WTE plant. During the quarter, our collection and transportation business achieved an impressive 18% year-on-year revenue growth, reaching INR163 crores. Our processing business also saw a decent growth of 9%, recording INR58 crores in revenue-driven by power sales from our PCMC waste-to-energy plant. Initial contribution from our — biomining project and as well from commercial start of C&D operations. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR59 crores, reflecting an 18% growth with an EBITDA margin of 24%, expanding by 120 basis-points compared to the same quarter last year. This strong financial performance underscores our operational efficiency, strategic growth initiatives and optimized waste processing and energy recovery, demonstrating effective asset utilization and a firm commitment to sustainable base management practices. We are delighted to share that our construction and demolition based management side has started yielding impressive results, underscoring its significant market potential and growth opportunities. This achievement reaffirms our commitment to sustainable waste management solution and positions us well to the — and positions us well to capitalize on emerging opportunities like this. In addition, our wholly-owned subsidiary, AG Infra Project 500, which has been recently awarded a contract worth INR976 crores by the Navid Mumbai Munipal Corporation for collection and transportation services. Revenue from this contract will start in a phased manner with full ramp-up being expected towards end of Q1 FY ’26. This further strengthens our financial positions and build-up our portfolio in multipal solid waste management. Look-ahead, we remain focused on scaling our investment in sustainable waste management and operational excellence. Our recent initiatives not only contribute to revenue growth, but also aligned with our broad — broader vision of environmental responsible — responsibility. By leveraging innovation, efficiency and strategic expansion, we are committed to delivering strong, sustainable and long-term results while cleaning a cleaner, greener future for the communities we serve. Thanking you and I now turn to the operational aspect, let me get Mahindra in. Mehindra, over to you. Thank you.
Mahendra A — Group President, Operations, Business Development & Diversification
Thank you, Jose. I would like to provide an update on the operational performance of Antoni Waste Limited. During the quarter, the PCMC Waste financial plant maintain its strong operational performance. Heavy successfully completed its inaugurant year with a planned growth factor of approximately 71%. The specifically further improved its efficiency, achieving an impressive PLF of about 77% in-quarter three of FY ’25. The achievement not only reflects operational excellence, but also sets a benchmark in-line with global industry standards. During the quarter, our collection and transportation operations efficiently managed approximately 0.49 million tonnes of waste and processed around 0.69 million tonnes of noticeable foreign waste. The total tonnage for quarter three FY ’25 stood at approximately 1.118 million tonnes, represent representing a 3.2% year-over-year increase when adjusted for completed projects. Over the first-nine months of FY ’25, we managed total volume of approximately 3.56 million tons, reflecting a 5.7% year-over-year-over-year growth after similar adjustments. This strong performance underscores the resilience of our operations and reinforces our confidence in meeting our internal volume growth projections. I would also like to highlight a special initiative that we undertook in partnership with the Navi Mumbai Corporation during the event, which was organized in Navi Mumbai. We have deployed 150 plus warriors and 30 plus vehicles collecting over 14,000 kgs of waste in three days, out of which 8,000 kg of plastic which was recycled and remaining 6,000 KG of web which was composted ensuring a zero rail waste. This achievement reflects the trust our clients — our clients places on us. During the quarter, our PCMC Waste energy plant generated over 23 plus million green units in-quarter three of FY ’25, reinforcing our commitment to reduce fossil fuel dependent and minimize carbon emissions. Additionally, our operations contributed to the avoidance of 3,334 tonnes of CO2 equivalent, further supporting our sustainability goals and environmental responsibility. During the quarter, the company sold approximately 38,500 tonnes of refused derived fuels that is RDF and 6,400 tons of proposed, bringing the total for the first-nine months of FY ’25 to around 103,000 tonnes of RDF and 15,600 tonnes of compost. Overall, operational metrics including both RDF and compost grew by 7% year-over-year and, highlighting strong market demand for recyclable materials. Our separate economy initiatives continue to deliver strong results, reinforcing our commitment to sustainability. By converting municipal current waste into RDF, we not only support environmental conservation, but also help cement companies meet their alternative-fuel requirement targets, driving industry-wide adoption of sustainable practices. Additionally, over 20,000 tonnes of construction and demolition-based process in-plant in Mumbai, an impressive 96% of waste has been successfully recycled into valuable to on the ESG front, our Scope 1 and Scope 2 emissions for the first-nine months of FY ’25 totaled approximately 19,545 tons and 2,213 tonnes of carbon dioxide respectively. With awarded emissions amounting to around 10,172 tonnes. Additionally, our ground stock currently stands at 10,157, reflecting our continued investment in skilled workforce to support our operations and sustainability initiatives. As we navigate the evolving landscape of municipal management, we remain committed to driving sustainable growth and enhancing operational efficiency. Our strong track-record, innovative approach and unwavering commitment to excellence will continue to be the pillars of our success, enabling us to achieve our strategic objectives and contribute to a cleaner, more sustainable future. Thank you. And I now hand over the call to NJ for financial highlights.
Subramanian NG — Group Chief Financial Officer
Thank you,. Good afternoon, everyone. For the 3rd-quarter ending FY ’25, our operating revenue grew by 15%, reaching INR221 crores compared to the same-period last year. Our total operating revenue, which includes income from sale of recyclables and RDF, excluding contract revenue stood at INR243 crores, reflecting a 12% Y-o-Y increase. In 3rd-quarter, the revenue composite stood at 62% of MSW CNT, 24% of processing and 14% of contracts and other sources. For the current quarter-ending December 24, this contribution came to 65% from C&D, 23% from processing and 11% from contracts and others. Our diversified revenue streams continue to provide flexibility and position us for sustained long-term growth. The Group achieved a consolidated EBITDA of INR59 crores for the quarter-ending December ’24, marking a growth of 18% with an EBITDA margin of 24%, which has expanded by 120 bps compared to Q3 FY ’24. This quarter has been the highest for the Group in terms of reported total revenue and reported EBITDA. The PAT for the quarter stood at INR18 crores, which is a growth of 16% compared to Q3 FY ’24. As of December ’24, the Group’s gross debt stood at INR431 crores and cash-and-cash equivalents was around INR65 crores, reflecting in a net-debt of approximately INR366 crores. This indicates a net-debt to equity ratio of 0.5 times. The Group’s weighted cost of debt is approximately 9.6% and our DSOs have remained stable during the quarter at 0.5. The standalone company’s performance during the quarter has been weak and this is primarily because Anthony Waste has initially submitted bids for various projects and executed them to multiple SPVs as mandated by the conditions. Over-time, due to the operational excellence of these SPVs and evolving technical qualification criteria, projects began to be awarded directly to material subsidiaries. As new contracts are now received directly by our 100% own subsidiaries and other material subsidiaries, it is more appropriate to assess the company’s performance on a consolidated basis. Additionally, we are actively working to optimize our operations and streamline our group structure to enhance overall efficiency and sustainability. Moving forward, we remain committed to our consistent efforts, the efficient operations of our PCMG WTE plant, the successful commercial launch of our C&D waste management project and the commencement of revenue from our new C&T contract positions us for strong revenue growth over the next couple of quarters. We expect steady and sustainable progress in the upcoming quarters and throughout financial year ’25 and ’26, which reinforces our confidence in achieving our long-term strategy goals. This concludes our remarks. We would now like to open the floor for Q&A.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press N2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one now. Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of Prashant Kothari from Stock Market Red. Please go-ahead.
Prashant Kothari
Yeah, good evening, everyone. I have a few questions. First, in Q2, the EBITDA margin stood at around 21.4% and in Q3, we see an improvement to around 23.5%. What are the key cost efficiencies or the revenue mix changes that are driving this?
Subramanian NG
Yeah, Prashant. Prashant. So the revenue mix has a direct implication on the positive slip which we have achieved in the EBITDA margin for the 3rd-quarter. If you see over the last 3/4, we have seen the contribution from project revenue coming down, which is basically reflecting the construction phases of the company getting over. So once the concession pace has got over, what we are seeing today is the core operating revenue getting reflected in our reported numbers. That is why you’re seeing a significant shift in the margin profile from a lows of 20% to a — around 23.5% that we have just reported.
Prashant Kothari
Okay. And second question, in Q2, the guidance for INR78 crore capex in FY ’25 was given and plan to be debt-free was also given in five years if there are new — no new large projects, right? So given the cash flows generated in Q3 and the upcoming project investments, do you still expect to stay on this trajectory?
Subramanian NG
Yeah. As of today, I mean, we don’t see any change to revisit our assumptions over here. So we will still be looking at the same similar capex and the overall over the next couple of months.
Prashant Kothari
Okay. And last question, what scale of revenue collection do you foresee from the EPR segment in the next two to three years?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
I mean, we have right now applied for EPR wallet for plastics you know and it’s already the application is already filed with CPCB, Central Mutual Board and but we will update you maybe next quarter when there is more clarity in terms of how much you know-how much — how many credits we have got.
Prashant Kothari
Okay. Okay. So by next year, should we expect these approvals to be received?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
We will at least have clarity in terms of how many credits we have got and then we will go in the — go in the market because these are still early days for the EPR from the plastics. So let’s explore. I mean, we are also expecting the policy and the business to evolve over the period of time.
Prashant Kothari
Okay. One last additional question, please. Your PCMC WT plant has achieved 76% PLF in Q3 almost, which is above industry average. Congratulations on that. With discussions ongoing for a much larger WT plant at the Kanjul, what are the expected capacity and timelines for that?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So in their recent budget phase speech, the commissioner has announced the waste-to-energy plant in Kandur. I think in the last call we also mentioned that we submitted a proposal to PMC. We are looking at a capacity of almost 3,000 tons per day almost four to five times bit of the plant
Prashant Kothari
So it will take two to three years at least
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
For the construction? Yes.
Prashant Kothari
Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot.
Operator
A reminder to all the participants. If you wish to register for a question, you may press star and one on your touchstone phone. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Nirav Dalal from MIB Securities India. Please go-ahead.
Neerav Dalal
Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I had two questions. One is that if we see the operating revenue that is C&T and processing, it’s up 15%. However, we see that the volume of waste is 3%. So is it correct to assume that the volume is becoming in — the volume number, its importance in the results is reducing or could you let us know about the bridge between 3% to 15%?
Subramanian NG
Yeah. Yeah, hi. So the collection and transportation volumes have inched up by less than 4% because these are stabilized projects in the areas that we work-in. So we are seeing around normally an urban generates anywhere between growth of 3% to 6% volumes growth. So we had — we reported around 3.1%. So that’s the kind of growth that we are seeing, the areas that we provide services in. The spike in revenue comes primarily due to escalations getting passed on to us through the increase in fuel and minimum wage bills and other items.
Neerav Dalal
Okay. So would it be correct to say that of the 18% MSW CNT revenues, 3%, 4% is volume and the other is escalation.
Subramanian NG
Yeah. So 4% would be volume growth, the balance will be escalation driven adjustments.
Neerav Dalal
And this escalation would obviously be volatile quarter-over-quarter across different quarters.
Subramanian NG
So normally, we have seen bulk of our contracts have annual escalation. So once the revenue jacket are up, we don’t see a significant shift happening till the time it comes for a recalibration at the end-of-the next assessment.
Neerav Dalal
So would it be right to say that the 3rd-quarter was the quarter where the escalations came into effect or how should one look at it?
Subramanian NG
So the 3rd-quarter was the quarter where the bulk of our contracts got the escalations kicked-in from various mutual corporations, which was not passed in the past. So we are seeing a lumpy impact coming into that. So we are seeing a significant benefit from coming in the 3rd-quarter.
Neerav Dalal
Okay, got that. So say next year 3rd-quarter, we could also see escalation, but depends on what the percentage would be. Would that —
Subramanian NG
So if you were to look on a year-on-year basis, a volume growth of 3% to 4% plus an escalation of fuel and wage bills as and as it changes get changed and calibrated in the fee. So maybe the Y-o-Y increase will not be very hard, but it will be definitely different. Also, one year down the line, we are talking about your revenues from construction definition and your CSG project from kicking-in, which are at higher-rate. So the base effect still changes.
Neerav Dalal
Correct, correct. So next year, we will have say earlier we used to assume like 4% to 5% as escalation. So be approximate — it will be some escalation plus the — plus the demolition and plus the new contract setting in. So you will also have some volume growth there from the new contract coming in. Got that. The second question is, we’ve seen the debt — so on one-side, we are seeing the net-debt increase. On the other side, we are seeing our — our average cost of debt coming down. So two questions here. One is that have we renegotiated the PCMC debt lower? And what is the target in terms of — could you — could you repeat in terms of the target for the net-debt to equity?
Subramanian NG
We have not renegotiated the PCMC loan yet. We are planning to do that maybe two years down the line when the PFC loan statement allows us to do that. So the refinancing benefit is coming from other core businesses, which has seen significant operational efficiency kicking-in and also my credit rating has improved in few of my material subsidiaries, which helps us in renegotiating the rates. Okay. And to comment on our net-debt position, I mean, if you were to assume that the company is not going to back any new contract and the existing contracts are going to be executed, then this company would be debt-free in 4.5 years period of time.
Neerav Dalal
Got it. But would it be right to assume that ex of the PCMC debt our — so what would be the X of PCMC debt, what would be our — what would be our debt?
Subramanian NG
Our cost of PCMC currently has a debt of around INR130 crores. So if I look at the total net-debt INR388 crores, it will be INR130 crores and that’s the total vehicle financing and my term loans with my other pursuing entity over here.
Neerav Dalal
Got that. And sorry, the PCMC debt is about what about 12.5%, 13% to.
Subramanian NG
So 10.5%.
Neerav Dalal
Okay, okay, okay. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity.
Operator
Thank you. Participants, you may press star N1 to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Bhavia Gandhi from Dalar Stock Broking. Please go-ahead.
Bhavya Gandhi
Yeah. Hi, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, my first question is regarding the incremental revenue that we will be seeing from the new projects. And if you can name the projects and the incremental revenue for next year, that will be great, which are not yet started or have recently started.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So the most recent project, which has recently started is the construction and debris plant, which we got the COD number. So next year will be the full-year. So that will have a significant revenue coming from that. The second is the commencement of the Nabi Mumbai tender, which formally will get over the ongoing tender will get over last week of March and from 1st April, we will start the new tender, where there is about 20% increase in revenue in the top-line.
Bhavya Gandhi
Yeah. It’s possible to share the absolute number, CMD plant and Navi Mumbai.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
Novembai, I presume we are looking at some INR900 plus crores of revenue over the nine year period. So that should add us, say, around INR100 crores of revenue and the C&D plan will give us a very conservative number of INR30 crores per annum. I mean, this doesn’t include revenue from sale of byproducts like manufactured sand and aggregate. I will put it at INR25 crores, because let it stabilize. So I think INR25 crore is a reasonable estimate from the C&D plant.
Bhavya Gandhi
And this INR100 crores, this is with 20% escalation. So we can assume that INR80 crore 85 crores is already there in the current revenues.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So yeah, the existing is an ongoing mandate. So you are right, 20% over you can say give you 100 kind of thing. Yeah.
Bhavya Gandhi
Got it. So everything put together, we can assume another INR40 crores INR45 crores of incremental revenue we will be seeing next year.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
About INR40. From CNT and from consident demolition, yes, we also have a project which will be executed next year. So that will also add to the top-line. That would be around — so let’s say about INR45 crored INR45 odd crores, yeah.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay, that will be full-year. So will be operational from when.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So it’s already operational. We started three months ago. So next year will be the full-year of operations.
Bhavya Gandhi
Got it. And with respect to the gross debt and net-debt, if you can provide figures as of 31st December.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So the gross debt for us was around INR431 crores and net-debt is INR366 crores,
Bhavya Gandhi
INR366 crores. Okay. And just if you can throw some light on the outstanding receivables except the 5% amount that we have to block every year, which has been outstanding for more than a year or maybe some timeline if you can provide it.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So the total current outstanding for us is around INR225 odd crores and this includes the long-term of around INR52 crores,
Bhavya Gandhi
INR52 crores. I mean this is more than 365 days?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
Yes, that has the retention of the tender conditions.
Bhavya Gandhi
No, no, I’m not talking about the retention amount. If we separate the retention amount, what would be the amount of plain outstanding debtors more than 365 days.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So that would be around INR38 crores.
Bhavya Gandhi
INR78 crores,
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
38, 38.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay, got it. Got it. Yeah. That’s it from my end. Thank you so much thank you.
Operator
Thank you all participants, you may press star N1 to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Omkar Fambed from Fintu Asset Management Private Limited. Please go-ahead.
Omkar Bhambid
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions to ask. First is a BMC is planning to levy 100 and 1,000 from every household per month as fee for handling solid each home. From this move, how Antoni is going to benefit? And my second question is, will the shift of Mumbai T1 terminal to Navi Mumbai will impact company’s tonnage or there will be a neutral impact on company’s tonnage due to we have existing presence in Snavi MP.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
The first one, BMC’s decision to lever user chargers is a positive step because that will improve PMC’s cash flows on account of solid waste management. So there’s future was two and waste management projects will probably have sustainable cash flows purely correct from this activity. Secondly, for regarding the change of airport, I mean that is — that will hardly have any impact because most of the dry waste which is generated from the terminal, I don’t think it comes to us. It probably gets recycled somewhere else so it will have
Omkar Bhambid
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Shah from Billion Securities. Please go-ahead.
Payal Shah
Yeah, good afternoon, everyone. I just have one question. As mentioned before, we’ve also reduced the dependency from corporations. So are we looking at other businesses or any update on that?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
Sorry, I couldn’t get you. Can you just come again please?
Payal Shah
Can you hear me now?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
Yeah, better. Yeah.
Payal Shah
Yeah. So I just have one question, like we have mentioned before that we want to reduce the dependency from corporation. So are we looking at other businesses or any update on that?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
Yes. I mean for those recycling projects, I mean we were looking at land purchased from MIBC, you know which there is some change of that at MIDC level. So because of which the division is taking more time. So we are also eagerly waiting for a decision from MIDC on the fate of our education so once we get that we should be able to start our non-municipal business.
Payal Shah
Okay, that’s it from my side. Thank you
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, if you wish to register for a question, please press star N1 now. The next question comes from the line of Ketan R Chheda, and retail investor. Please go-ahead.
Ketan R Chheda
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. I’d like to ask one with respect to the VGF funding for the PCMC project, have we received the entire VGF amount or something is still pending? And if it is pending by when are we expected to receive?
Subramanian NG
But of the INR50 crores of media funding, we have received INR45 crores and the same has been applied towards debt repayment. The balance INR5 crores is expected by September 2025.
Ketan R Chheda
Okay. And we will use that amount again to repay the debt on the project.
Subramanian NG
Yes, we have repaid that on the project.
Ketan R Chheda
Okay. And the other question is with respect to the pet bottles project, we have submitted a proposal to an FMCG company. Could you share an update on that one? When can we expect to start that project?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
And no, I mean, I think in the last call also, we had mentioned that things are in that SMBG coming a different idea. So we are not pursuing that now
Ketan R Chheda
Okay. Okay. And with respect to the tire recycling, I believe you mentioned that we still have — we don’t have the land and discussions are going with MIDC. So assuming the land thing gets settled, so from that point onwards, how long would you take to start the commercializing the project?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
I think the tire thing can be started in about six to nine months, say two to 3/4.
Ketan R Chheda
Okay. And also I assume that you would have identified all the equipment
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
Those are identified, I mean yeah.
Ketan R Chheda
Okay. So those 3/4 are basically for placing the orders and getting the equipments commissioned.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
That’s right. Yeah.
Ketan R Chheda
Okay, okay. Thank you so much and wish you all the best. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Next follow-up question comes from the line of Gandhi from Dalal Stock Broking. Please go-ahead.
Bhavya Gandhi
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the second opportunity. Just wanted to again ask on the plastic waste management. Are we looking more on the CNP side or we are looking on the recycling side?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
You talk about the plastic thing?
Bhavya Gandhi
Yeah, plastic.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
No, plastic is on the processing side, processing, recycling.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay. So are we planning to set-up a plant or something or what exactly are we trying to do over there?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
I was talking in the context of the EPR, the EPR revenue that we get will be from the plastic processing we do in our waste-to-energy plant.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay, any quantum of revenue or capex or any timeline if you would like to provide?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So as I mentioned a while ago that we have already filed the application-based on all the volumes and so on. The — our application is pending with CPCB, which opens a wallet and which will decide the credit that we will get. So the policy is still evolving. So we will get to know as time progresses maybe in the next one or two quarters to understand the real impact of the of the revenue that we get from the stream.
Bhavya Gandhi
Got it. And in terms of non-municipal revenue, I’m just re-checking. One is tire recycling that we are actively looking at. Another is vehicle scrapping. Third is plastic waste management, right? Is it the fair assumption or are we looking at something else also?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So plastic, in a small way, we had given the plastic to a company which was converting that into oil. So we are still evaluating the technical feasibility and the sustainability of the technology. Once we — once that feasibility is figured out, then we will take a call on that. But as of now, we are talking only about the vehicle and the tire. But the third dimension that we are trying to evaluate and we have got fairly good response is the revenue from the sand — M sand that we get at our construction and debris processing plant. So there — so that M sand, there is lot of good response. We are getting lot of good traction and we have already sold close to 3,500 tons in the last — in the first one month of operations itself.
Bhavya Gandhi
So what is it called M sand?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
Yeah, manufactured sand. You can say the recycled sand.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay, okay. Recycled sand. Okay. Okay, that’s done out of construction.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
That’s right. Yeah.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay. And would you like to give the revenue EBITDA guidance for next one or two years?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
It’s still too early. I mean, we would like to club it with the PNG financials. But very broadly, I would say that because shipping fee will continue to be the main revenue stream for the C&D plant, this would essentially be between 3% to 5% of the total revenue coming of the CMD project.
Bhavya Gandhi
Actually, I was asking with respect to the entire overall group revenue and EBITDA guidance.
Subramanian NG
So we would be looking at a growth of around 15% to 18% at least for the next year based on the existing contracts. Of course, things will be changing as and when we execute the new contracts. EBITDA margin should be in-line with what we have already achieved in the first-nine months, if not better. We are seeing a decent upward traction in the revenue realization from sale of recycled products and also the volumes efficiency kicks-in at larger volumes get processed out.
Bhavya Gandhi
Sir, earlier we had guided for 25% sort of CAGR in terms of revenue, 20% to 25% that was the
Subramanian NG
CAGR revenue growth over the next three to five years holds off, but we are for the next year’s revenue number.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay. Okay. This 15% to 18% is just for the next year, right?
Subramanian NG
So we still hold-on to the 25% growth over the next three to five years based on the pipeline of projects that we want to bid for.
Bhavya Gandhi
Got it. Fair enough. Fair enough. Got it. Thank you. Thank you so much. That’s it from my end.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you all participants. You may press star and one to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Dhruv from DSM Securities. Please go-ahead.
Dhruv Raut
Hello, am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir. Please go-ahead.
Dhruv Raut
Yeah. So my question is, can you share any numbers on CND business has started and how much will contribute to this year and possibly if you can share for FY ’26 also project.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So this project we started commercial operations middle of November and we will be processing close to 400 to 500 tonnes per day-in the next, I would say, three to four months. After that, we expect the tonnage or the waste process to increase to about 600 tons per day. So that’s a gradual ramp-up that we want to do to make sure that the processing is better. And as and when the recycled products are produced, we also find — we also create a good market for that. So in in terms of top-line, as we mentioned, and then we can expect about INR25 crores of top-line from this project. There is not fee. Yeah, plus little more for — for the sale of sand and aggregates.
Dhruv Raut
Okay, fine. And so my follow-up question is, are we looking for any valuable plan and would it be — would be the capex for the same? What would be the same?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
Sorry, you said, can you come again please?
Dhruv Raut
So are we looking for any WD plant and what would be the capex for the same?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So as I mentioned a while ago, BMC, we have submitted a proposal to BMC to set-up a large waste-to-energy plant at, which is where we currently are processing about 6,000 tonnes of waste. So that proposal we are in discussion with BMC and that should be our next project as and when a deal is finalized with BMC. The good thing is that BMC in their recent budget announced setting up of waste-to-energy project at. So that shows that BMC has all the intent to go-ahead with this project.
Dhruv Raut
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
The next follow-up question comes from Ketan R Chheda from Retail Investor. Please go-ahead.
Ketan R Chheda
Yeah. Thanks for the follow-up. Any updates you can share with respect to new opportunities either in CNT or in waste processing areas, any upcoming opportunities, any tenders in different cities or municipal corporations across India?
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
When it comes to processing, we are looking at a couple of — I mean, first of all, I mean our focus is essentially in closing this transaction with BNC for the waste-to-energy at Kanjur that remains our foremost focus area. In addition to that, we are looking at a couple of more waste-to-energy plans where we just want to be choosy because we want to make sure that whichever project we take, I mean, that’s going to be commercially sustainable. And in addition to that, we are also looking at — in fact, we have bid for certain construction and debty projects. We will update as and when there is progress on that. Same goes for some of the collection and transportation projects
Ketan R Chheda
Okay. Okay. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. Our next question comes from the line of Gandhi from Chal Stra Broking. Please go-ahead.
Bhavya Gandhi
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the follow-up. Sir, just wanted to ask, you mentioned that the waste-to-energy project at could be 4x to 5x that of PCMC. So can you assume that the overall capex would go in the range of INR800 crores to INR1,000 crores?
Subramanian NG
Yeah, they are about maybe slightly more because it’s going to also have a very large bio-CNG project in addition to the existing composting and RDF production that we do. So it’s going to be an integrated project in that respect.
Bhavya Gandhi
Sir, won’t it be a heavy burden of debt? If we look at the net-debt at current levels, it’s not that elevated, but with the PC — with the waste-to-energy at, what would be the net-debt to equity or some other matrix if you can provide.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So by the way, that would be one part of the transaction is also — we have — the proposal that we have given off also extend the life of the projects beyond the 2036, which has been governed by the existing tender condition. So we are extending the project life. We are also trying to have a risk mitigation tool by reducing the transportation cost linked to the RDF supply, which kind of speaks of the shine from the EBITDA margins, which we are currently facing at the processing entity. So by coming up with this proposal, we are ensuring that there is a 100% circularity and sustainability solution being provided for the city of Mumbai, wherein the entire waste gets processed, processed handled and disposed of in a most efficient manner. So yes, the total debt will definitely increase, but currently my net-debt to equity is 0.5x. So even after a drawdown of say INR800 crores of debt, I will still be well within serviceable limits based on any infrastructure definition.
Bhavya Gandhi
Got it. And also that — can we assume that gives us some affirmation on the renewal of the CNT at Mumbai CNT project at Mumbai, which is due similarly in exclusive contract.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
So the collection and transportation contracts are completely delinked with the processing contracts. Those contracts will be coming up for renewal in 2027 2028. So the collection and transportation contracts and waste processing contracts are mutually exclusive. They have their own life cycles.
Bhavya Gandhi
Got it. Got it. And you mentioned in the press release regarding the end-of-life plastic for road construction, you’ve done some collaborative project with IIT Bombay. If you can throw some light on that as well.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
Yeah, so that’s a project where we collaborated with IIT Bombay because we wanted to use some of the plastic that we get our site. So the — it’s about 150 meters of stretch, which has been — sorry, sorry, it’s about 300 meters of stretch, which has been made, looks strong. I mean, so the idea basically is that how this plastic can be used effectively to reduce — usage of.
Bhavya Gandhi
Got it. And just one last thing on the waste-to-energy at, if you can draw ROIC, ROC or X IRR, cash ex-IRR or any of that matrix.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
I think it’s still early days for this thing, but the IRS and viability and the growth metrics should be same as what we are seeing in the various processing projects like the PCMC Waste 2 Energy.
Bhavya Gandhi
Got it. Fair enough. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for the loved it answer. That’s it from my end.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants. If you wish to register for a question, you may press star and one now. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr Jose Jacob for closing comments.
Jose Jacob Kallarakal
I want to take a moment to thank our dedicated team for their incredible contribution to our success. Your tireless effort have been essentially in achieving our goals and we are building on that momentum. Our focus remains on delivering consistent results and creating long-term value for our shareholders. We are committed to investing in innovation and leveraging our expertise to strengthen our market position and drive sustainable growth. I’m particularly excited about our path towards a cleaner and a greener future. Thank you for all of you and I wish you a pleasant evening. Bye.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Anthony Waste Handling Cell Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.