Aia Engineering Ltd (NSE: AIAENG) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Oct. 30, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Kunal Shah — Executive Director-Finance
Sanjay Majmudar — Non-Executive Director
Unidentified Speaker
Analysts:
Bhumika Nair — Analyst
Priyankar Biswas — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Ashish Kejriwal — Analyst
Parikshit Gupta — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day. And welcome to the AIA Engineering Limited post results conference call.This is Sagar. I’ll be the moderator for your call today.We have with us, the management team of AIA Engineering Limited.[Operator Instructions]
I would now like to turn the conference over to the AIA Engineering Management Team. Please go ahead, sir.
Kunal Shah — Executive Director-Finance
Yes, thank you so much. First of all, a very warm welcome to all of you on, on the conference call for AIA to review our second quarter numbers. As usual, I also have Sanjay on the line with us. He’s in transit and possibly with us for another 15 minutes.So please pardon him and us that he may have to drop off early and sincere apologies for preponing this again because of this transit issues. And as we know, a lot of people came back to us saying, you know, either they’re only on holiday or getting on to holiday.
And we thought it’s best to prepone it and, you know, accommodate everyone quickly I’ll run through the highlights for this quarter and then, you know, a small commentary and then we’ll get into Q&A.This quarter continues to be flat in, in line with the first quarter of this year at 60,000 tons, 60,330 tons, representing sales of 1,030 crores slightly above about 1,004 crores in the first quarter of this year.
And compared to 77,000 tons and 1,273 crores of revenue that we’ve done in the second quarter of last year. If I’m moving on our other, our operating income, that the export benefit portion comes to about 28.93. Sorry comes to 13.70 which is in line with our export for this period.Our Forex and the Treasury income is at 90 crores and thereby leading to a limit of 366 crores. Almost comparable to 372 crores of a beta in the first quarter and down from 444 crores that we did in the second quarter last year.
Our Profit after Tax is at 256 crores, 256.72 again, almost in line with the first quarter of this year, which was at 259.58 and down from 323 crores in the second quarter of last year.We have the note uploaded which mentions the breakup of our other income, which is Treasury Foreign Exchange and export benefits. Happy to share more detail on what if required.From a working capital standpoint, this year, we are at about 415 days of total working capital, which includes raw material at 55 you know, working in progress and finished for the 76 days and thee at 74 days. And then there is credit days that will get reduced from that. So that is working capital is in line.
And our stock and stock and data represents the lower volume of production and sales that we are seeing compared to the previous period.Coming on to an important slide on breakup of our segment wise sales. As you will see that our mining sales outside of India is at 39,800 slightly up from 36,700 from the first quarter, but down from 52,000 tons in the second quarter of last year. Our non-mining is almost flat and in line with the, you know what we’ve done full year should be in line with what we’ve done last year. So, the half year number now is at 120,922 compared to 151,000 that we’ve done in half year, last year, two quarters of, you know, 60,000 tons of fee that we done.
Some other housekeeping numbers. Our, our net cash is at 3,212 crores which is after the buyback pay out that has been done. There is a small debt of about 120 crores and the Net Cash figure is after that.All are other operating metrics are comparable. We have planned for capex of about 250 crores which includes our investment equity investment in renewable power, the rubber liner plant that we are setting up and the 36,000 ton expansion for grinding media so that all of that comes about 250 crores and we continue to spend that over this year and whatever space over the year after that.
So with that said, I will move on to the commentary for the quarter and the big question on the slower sales in this quarter. And last I think what we are seeing now is our three larger themes and I’ll have Sanjay Bhai expand on that a little more.But the key things are that we are seeing some slow down at, at some mining customers where our office looks to be a little lower. What we thought will be caught up in 2nd and 3rd quarter looks to be a little more systemic and structural. More than three or four large customers are going through this stocking process.
So, you know, material that was supposed to be invoiced and shipped out, you know, are, is being referred to later quarters and, and maybe at least stocking cycle is something that we may have to face with more customers. And you know, just supply issues that have Boggled us for, you know, last few quarters in with the rest the consequence, the shipping rate not only went up but containers were not available.We are seeing some, you know, pushback from customers on saying there is strategic uncertainty on account of the supply chain and once some more time before you know, they go back with business with us. So all put together, it’s a it’s a 30,000 ton impact this quarter.
But overall, we did 292,000 tons last year, it looks to be a 10% lower revenue volume either way, whichever way you slice it for this full year. So, you know, closer to 260, 255-to-60,000-ton mark for the full year.And there are, you know, we have the conversation on growth and new customer edition. We are and we maintain this last many quarters about all the efforts that the business that the management is putting into, you know, augment our presence to sharpen our offering and you know, increase the value that we offer to the customer.
We are extremely confident all you think about things but at the same time, conversion is just taking time and it is it is causing us as much grief just about the time that it is taking. And there is no change in in that conversion cycle, you know, the time frame that that looks to be coming up.We will we continue to put in all our efforts and we hope that important convergence from Post to Chrome come along soon and we’ll be happy to share progress on that as that happens. We’ll have Sanjay Bhai chime in with his thoughts on this and then we can go on to Q in your mind.
Operator
Oh, sorry to interrupt, sir. The line for Sanjay Sir is disconnected. I’m just reconnecting his line.
Kunal Shah — Executive Director-Finance
Okay.While he joins, I, think I’ll just preempt a few questions, you know, from investors on, on the world market and you know, this unusual lower summit that we receive in last two quarters. It’s a first for us or, you know, last more than 18 years that we’ve been listed, there has been a quarter where we have seen this.
We do recognize that, you know, things don’t like that. There is this classical situation where more than one thing you know, go against, you know, you are there just outside your control. And maybe this is once a year, we are hoping that we much sharper and you know, stronger out of it, but it is a year that looks like, you know, there will be some, some down, you know, reduced revenue for the year. Did you?Is Sanjay Bhai back on?
Operator
Yes Sir, his line is connected.
Kunal Shah — Executive Director-Finance
Sanjay Bhai we have just finished and if you want to add to?
Sanjay Majmudar — Non-Executive Director
Good afternoon to all of you and Happy Diwali in advance. So, as we explained and yes, Kunal elaborated, there are three-Four very distinctly, I would say a bit unusual circumstances or factors that we are facing perhaps after a very long period of time. So, one there is a distinct impact of reduction in offtake by customers who have placed their orders, but they are not following up with POS simply either because of perhaps the stock or perhaps they’re waiting for the price to correct. Thanks to the freight still being pretty high thanks to the supply change. And we are not, I don’t see this as a structural you know, reduction, but we are more analyzing it and understanding this to be more cyclical rather than structural in nature.
So, one fundamental issue is that while our efforts for conversion continue, it is this reduction or little less order intake that we are receiving from the customers who are generally, you know, whose POS are generally coming in very regularly is what is bothering us a little bit having said that 23 things on the positive side. So, we have in fact started our supplies go a bit slow to Canada. Similarly, we are working very aggressively on several mines, supply chain challenges and freight issues are definitely concerning us, but we feel that perhaps freight seems to be going down a little bit and in the coming quarter, it should look a little better.
But as we distinctly did the maths and you know, understood the situation. On a very realistic note, we see a reduction in sales to the extent of maybe 2025 30,000 tons this year, which as I elaborated is cyclical in nature, nothing structural. We are very hopeful that you know, all the conversions on which we are focused several mines, we are currently working. It might happen that we may be able to catch up, but it’s very early in the day to make any gas and it’s rather safe to say that there could be a little decline about 5 to 10% in the overall sales this year.
Having said that margins continue to remain robust. Everything else, opportunity wise, everything else remains to be robust. So, we are keeping our fingers crossed and hoping for the best.Secondly, it is early in the day to hazard a guess about how the next year is going to look like. So, if one or two large contracts that on which we are working, they fructify things can very significantly change.
So, we are hoping for the best but on a conservative note, we don’t want to give any guidance about next year until maybe we reach the three quarter, three results and we have a little clarity on the new initiative that we are working. The regular uptake for whom we are already there on boarded through long term contracts, So I think with this, Kunal let’s go on to the Q&A.
Kunal Shah — Executive Director-Finance
Okay, thanks Sanjay Bhai.And if you do drop off, please. Sanjay Bhai it’s ok.
Sanjay Majmudar — Non-Executive Director
Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Actually, I’m just boarding the flight so it could be a little challenge, but I’m there on the call till you know, till at least under few minutes.
Kunal Shah — Executive Director-Finance
Operator we can move on to the Q&A please.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the Q&A session.[Operator Instructions]The first question comes from Bhumika Nair from Dam Capital. Please go ahead.
Bhumika Nair
Yeah. Hi, Sanja Bhai. Hi Kunal Bhai. You know, heard your commentary on the volume kind of a challenge that we’re seeing in this quarter in this year. So just want to understand is that, you know, is it that the conversions are taking longer? We had added actually the mining liner facility as well. You know, so how is at least that should have seen some growth and if you can also comment how the US market is finding out where the volumes are steady there or have, they have fallen post you know, ongoing litigation out there?If you can just give some more color, where exactly are you seeing, are you seeing this drop in any specific or kind of a thing which is more platinum minor or something like that?
And that can help us understand a little more because, you know, if I look at it, if you’re looking at something like 260 to 70,000 kind of volume for the full year, you know, almost for a four year period, we’re not really seeing growth while I understand it’s too early to give guidance for next year.You know, then logically the next year, should we come back to the 320-330 kind of a number which is still just barely 20-30,000 kind of incremental volumes over 24? Or do you find that that would be a big challenge of today to even provide that kind of visibility?
Kunal Shah
Hi Bhumika, thank you for your question and you got a few questions rolled into it. So I’ll try and address each one by one. Let me start by your question on us, right? I think the matter as you know, you know, every jurisdiction takes it quite seriously and, and you know, we are, we are only allowed to say so much on public platforms while the matter is sub judice, but our business there broadly continues as is.
I mean, there are nuances there but I mean, we are using the disclosure that we made about the interim CBD attachment that has been applied and, and so we continue to cooperate, work depend and do make sure we put out, you know, the most relevant information, you know, promptly. So, so US continues as is and we’re doing everything that we can further.
Bhumika Nair
The volumes there in the US market are intact and they have not seen any kind of a decline. Would that understanding be correct?
Kunal Shah
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Broadly, yes. It is the volume looks to be okay. I mean, like I said, I will be constrained in speaking much about it, but it’s a steady business for us has been developed over many years and that continues as is. So, moving on to the next question that you had, which is about the growth. So just the I think there are all these, there is two pillars of the issue that we’re seeing. One is the logistics and the supply chain and just, you know, the anxiety or, or the discomfort customers would have around that uncertainty, right?
So that is one pillar and that’s on and off and that’s going along and the other is around the what’s happening in the customer. Then I think there are four times where it’s just general, you know, we have, it’s a, it’s a little optical commentary that you would hear from Mining companies suggest things are okay and things look to be okay. But we are just seeing a soft conversation now, whether that is temporary, whether it will be a little long, longer tenure than you, it’s still too early to, you know, call that one out.But, and, that, that one of the consequences for that is just the restocking, you know, conversation where they’re just saying that, okay, we’ve got more stuff, you know, we just not buy for next two quarters, the next one quarter or maybe next three. And you know, continue the conversation forward now that least talking generally does not happen, you know, unless they’re looking at a little softer outlook, right?
So, but we’re too small account in the league to have any view beyond this, but we’re just seeing softness at the customer end and that’s resulting in, you know, the situation. So that is one aspect in the second pillar that I said, which is the supply chain is just real, right? In our case where any new customer coming on board or customers will be having a conversation or just bought it for a period, you know, want a little more comfort on, you know, the whole supply chain issues, right?They are all like Sanjay Bhai mentioned, looks like the worst is behind us, right? What happened with the recipe, the rates of the whole China container thing came along, right. The Global Geopolitical Space is a very, you know, funny situation where it’s impossible for, you know, any, you know, company to have a certain view about which way to go with it.
So, we are staying in place, right. We are there, we are making sure we are giving more comfort. We’re not defaulted on or delayed on any delivery, right? We added more stock last quarter to make sure that no customer is impacted. But it is, it is a conversation and, and there is some consequence on us, you know, for now.You asked about the Mining liner, I think it remains as continues apt but continues as flat you’ve not been able to, you know, add you know, what we were looking to add this, this, this year from that space and, and what of factors?The, the irony is that we are becoming the more confident we get about the consequences that we can participate in the customers. And, you know, and the, the more the irony about it that is just taking longer and there’s nothing else I can say to, you know, allay that question, but it’s all business-as-usual right now.
It’s just, it’s just this interim stage it looks like but, but that volume that the 292,000 tons, you know, the 10% lower volume this year compared to last looks to be a reality for now. What happens next year? I would just take a quarter or two is this is the early sign of mining companies feeling, you know, a little less excited about the future.You know that these are things that we don’t know today, this is just a temporary housekeeping, but we are seeing more than one more time and more, more than one geography phase that so, you know, it, may not be as you know, we cannot dismiss it yet. It is not something that we can say for sure that it’s an issue. So.
Sanjay Majmudar
And just to, just to Kunal add, I don’t think it’s, as I said, in the opening remarks, I don’t think it is more specific nor it is structural but more cyclical.Let’s, let’s, let’s hope for the best how it goes. We are keeping our fingers crossed.As I said, we are working on several opportunities that run into more than six-digit opportunity, you see. So it’s not that we have stopped working on those opportunities, but it’s just very unfortunate that the volume of take from the customers has not happened the way we want or we had anticipated and, you know, we cannot force them to buy as you know, So, so, so, you know, we, we have to just see how it goes, but I think we’re still very, very optimistic about the medium to long term prospects. That’s all I can say at this point in time.
Bhumika Nair
So, you know, maybe if we can get some comfort around, you know, what is the kind of new customer interaction while you know conversion might be happening a little slower because you know, one part of the existing customers kind of be stocking.
So, which is where there is a decline in terms of volumes, but then that will be partly offset against some kind of new customers, additions and conversions that are happening.
Sanjay Majmudar
Bhumika, I indicated that we are working on several opportunities which can sum up beyond the six-digit, easily opportunity.As you know, we don’t share more details. We cannot, we are under confidentiality for our own protection of our own interest.And I mean, that’s all I can say at this point in time, so nothing, no work has stopped. Obviously, as we say US is also turning out to be quite reasonable.
As you know, we have already disclosed, Canada indicated we have started doing some supplies. So let’s see, let’s wait for the third and the fourth quarters.We are quite working very hard. You know, we will not like to face this kind of situation but that we have to accept the reality. This is what it is.
Bhumika Nair
So in that state, are we looking to kind of go a little slow on an expansion given utilization levels are kind of dipped a little bit. Any thought on that to kind of.
Sanjay Majmudar
No, no, no, no, nothing, nothing, nothing. See our expansions will take its own pace. We are already working on a further 36,000 tons beyond 460. And you know, this will and a capex plan that still 250 to 60 crores, there is no let down.
So, had I anticipated something long term or medium term? I would have stopped my capex but no, that is not the case. Clearly not the case.
Kunal Shah
We already scaled down the 80,000 between 36 and 36 is also modular. So in that sense, you know, we will take a call. It’s not money committed one way. It’s a, it’s a ground field and it is modular.So I mean, if we see that the next quarter also remains this way. I mean, we can always scale that down further, but it’s like change.In any case, it’s not a material amount, large amount that we’re adding in. The big decision was scaling down the 80 to 36 which we have already done. And which is again, which is a start is a start stop. You know, for us to, to see if we want to further delay that.
Bhumika Nair
Okay. Okay.Got it. Got it. Thanks. I’ll settle back in the queue. Thanks so much. Thank.
Operator
Thank you,[Operator Instructions]The next question comes from Priyankar Biswas from B&P Pariba. Please go ahead.
Priyankar Biswas
Happy Diwali in advance Sanjay Bhai and Kunal Bhai.
Sanjay Majmudar
Yes, sir. Happy Diwali it to you. Thank you.
Priyankar Biswas
Thank you. Thank you.So, my first question is like as you were highlighting that there has been a De-Stocking angle at this moment. So, is my understanding correct that we have not lost any customers as such? It’s just a cyclical thing. So there has been no existing customer loss at least whatever we have.
Sanjay Majmudar
So let me, let me correct, let me correct here a little bit.What we say that we are trying to understand the circumstances under which the offtake has reduced. Okay. So one factor could be this talking, yes. In a few cases, we clearly know the customer is carrying larger stocks and therefore is slow on placing the order. But honestly, that’s not the only reason there could be multiple reasons.
I think another reason worth considering is the fact that because of the supply chain and the freight challenges, our pricing has become a little less attractive because you know, we do generally add everything correct.So, some people would have anticipated that yes, since prices are going down, I mean, the rates are going down, let’s wait for a while and then we will place the order, we have enough material.
There is a possibility that you know, all these factors can reverse, can reverse quickly than what we anticipate at this point in time, we have started conservatively to wait and watch and see how things pan out.
Priyankar Biswas
So, if I put it this way, like what I understand that at least what I can understand from my interactions in the forest market, especially in China. So, there has been excess capacity, and they have been flooding the market with very cheap material at this point and supplying finance also in some of the mining geographies. Is it also one of the reasons that the differential between, let’s say federal and post has become quite high in certain place. And that’s why there is a reluctance to convert or it is over.
Sanjay Majmudar
I don’t think so. Kunal if you can throw some light on this.
Kunal Shah
First question is I don’t think that in the scheme of things we see there’s a $2 million plus market, you know, come is very less presence already, even if I go from 15 to 20% that’s still 100,000, 200,000 additional pro market. I don’t think that is a material factor, you know, where for anything happening in the whole market can improve. I mean, that’s a one way street as where we are seeing it just on the order of it. The the cost differential is let’s say 2% but we are adding 98% of value in terms of promos and other things, right, the recovery process and all of that.
And because it is never that the whole premise on which we’re building the the chrome opportunities on all the other benefits that chrome offers along for any additional lower cost. Of course, does not change that. You know, the value of reservation. I think that is the growth question that we’re talking of the earlier question that you had is, you know, what is happening and what the participant was asking is, you know, it is a combination of all of these things.
You know, there could be a customer or two that it is, there are very few other people, you know, play in the space. So there could have been situations where, you know, the the the order has moved from here today, but it is a combination of all of these things that will not be fair to say, you know, one way is this that has led to the situation.
Priyankar Biswas
And if you can share like which geographies are impacted because as you said, that us is not that impacted and Canada, you have resumed. So I’m wondering where exactly is the impact.
Kunal Shah
We do yet to resume? It’s still there, it’s still there at a pre you know, there is still yet to come through.I think we will not want to get into more details like Sanjay Bhai, I explained, it’s there are plenty of noises here in our business and you know, it will be difficult to really get a get granular beyond this.
Priyankar Biswas
And just last question from my side because we used to be quite a meaningful player in Brazilian Iron ore earlier.And what I understand is that we have continued discussions in Latin copper, particularly Peru and Chile exhaust is. So what are our progress in these two areas at the moment?Because Brazil, the anti-dumping duties are now gone. So how are we progressing and how does the market look?
Kunal Shah
So, Brazil anti-dumping, there’s only the, the CBD portion as they call it. There’s one portion that’s still active, the dumping has been, the duty has been terminated in Brazil. So, I mean, South America needs to be a large one. It’s one of the largest markets and as you know, copper is one of the largest commodities in that region and it is, it’s absolutely a market of interest and all our work is sitting in with that opportunity.
So there is absolutely zero hesitation in saying that, that we have and we have a solution that brings this proposal benefits to the clients, correct, especially in a, in a context where their costs are going up, they won’t have, you know, the, you know, the proposal are going down.
We believe that our product fits in it is, you know, a little frustrating for the time that is, you know, required to do that but that’s why you have to make, right.That’s the investment the company has to make in terms of, you know, resources and just continuing to keep up with the customer. So South America to answer the question remains absolutely a market of interest and there’s no change in that thesis.
Sanjay Majmudar
Strong efforts, strong efforts are continued in those markets for conversion efforts right now.
Priyankar Biswas
So what about Brazil? I don’t know because we used to be quite strong like with Valley and others. So how is it looking? I mean, we were very strong, I don’t know that that was. So how is it looking there.
Kunal Shah
Granular question and one market and one customer may not be the whole story, right? So I think we’ll just defer back to you know, requesting not to get too granular but nothing’s changed. It is business as usual. As far as we are concerned, there’s no structural, you know, situation that we are looking at that probably changes that thesis.
Priyankar Biswas
And just one more in. So, in the other expenses, I see that the other slide item that is there is on the higher side despite the lower production in this quarter.So, any expenses that may have gone up uneasily just for my understanding.
Operator
Sorry, the line for the chairperson is disconnected. So please stay connected while I reconnect the line.Ladies and gentlemen, we have the line for the chair person reconnected. So please go ahead.
Kunal Shah
Other expenses includes our professional and legal expenses and a lot of our legal trade defense costs in this two quarters because a lot of work for Brazilian us has has happened in those milestones was this quarter. So that is that is where it’s appearing that way.
Priyankar Biswas
Okay. Completely understood. Thank you, sir.
Sanjay Majmudar
And then yeah, sorry, the end of freight, freight still continues to be a major component freight.
Kunal Shah
Balancing that you know is worth nothing.
Priyankar Biswas
Okay? Okay. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants. If you wish to register for questions, please press star and one on your touchtone phone.
Kunal Shah
If you have no further questions, I think we can wrap up the call.
Operator
Yes. As there are no further questions. I now hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments. Please go-ahead sir.
Kunal Shah
Thank you everyone. I do realize there may be more questions that you may have around.
Operator
Really. Sorry to interrupt, sir. We have a last minute registration from Mr from ICIC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead, sir.
Unidentified Speaker
Yes, thanks for the question again. Sorry, I joined a bit late. So, pardon me, if I’m being repetitive.So just a question around robust supply chain issue, we are seeing this in COVID. And now right at what point do we actually go back to the drawing board to think about any expansion out of India?
Sanjay Majmudar
So, I’ll be very candid with you, this is something which we at the board level are very seriously debating over last couple of quarters.Even in today’s board meeting, we had extensive discussions, some technical presentations. I will only say at this point in time that we are, you know, looking at it, quite, quite seriously. But, you know, it’s not so easy to take a call on this. But.
Kunal Shah
I think the fundamental point is that our thesis remains, you know, for what we’re doing out of India and, you know, everything else that we’re doing.Well, there will always be a conversation and, you know, discussion on whether what, what mitigation measures exist. And when we will consider a plant outside India, you know, may or may not be in consideration.But this is, you know, like what you said is that we have to be in the marketplace, and we have to make sure we, we, we, we work on a strategy that works to our advantage.
So, I think if, and when that becomes a serious consideration, we’ll be very happy to discuss for now, our, our focus continues to, you know, with all that we’re doing, like I said this with the previous participant.The point is that it is business as usual. I mean, we’ve had a little unusual, you know, lower off with a few customers and, and things that we discussed, but otherwise nothing really that requires urgent effort or actions on top of that?
Unidentified Participant
Sure, thanks and all the best. Thank you. Thank.
Operator
You. Thank you. Sir we have two more questions. The next question comes from Ashish Kejriwal from Nuama. Please go ahead.
Ashish Kejriwal
Yeah, hi, good evening.So, my question is in one of the answers you said that maybe because of customers may be thinking that there could be some reduction in prices and because of that fact, maybe they have reduced the volume.So, my question is, do you think that if we can reduce prices or take some hit on the margins, we’ll be able to increase volumes or it will not be the case.
Kunal Shah
Was the phrase cost. I don’t think again, I’ll go back to a macro point is that our thesis does not rely on cost, right? When I, when my solution can offer, can solve the some of a head grade version or recovery versioning or you know, where I can improve to put into the system and produce more metal.
This cost becomes incidental, right? It is not something that is a strategic conversation with the customer. What we was that one of the pillars of friction right now is the, you know, the whole uncertainty around the shipping situation which is unavailability of containers and the high shipping cost and customers it would, you know, sometimes get on the fence is that there is some amount of uncertainty.Should I just wait, wait it out? And get, you know, things and things, you know, stabilize a bit.You know, I think that’s, that’s what the, that’s where the Yeah, yeah.
Sanjay Majmudar
There, there was no question of renegotiating on the pricing. Yeah.
Ashish Kejriwal
No, sir. I was just looking at an all for new customers.
Kunal Shah
Sorry to finish the question. Pricing is not price conversation, right? I hope I know, explain that in that it is not where saying I need a discount or a lower price.There is much more effort and engagement, you know, that is required at all times with the customer to make sure he gets a significant disproportionate benefit in all these other things that we you know, bring to the table.
Ashish Kejriwal
Understood. So. Sir, secondly, obviously, this is the case that we have been highlighting that so many years. But if you look at the numbers for last six years, actually, our sales volume in the Mining segment is more or less segment. So, is it that we are not or you know, we are taking much more than much more time to convert our or our customers?
Kunal Shah
So. I appreciate that.I, what I was saying is that it’s a little unfair to just paint the canvas with one brush.You do know, but Kunal.
Sanjay Majmudar
Kunal Kunal second, let me let me be a little more clear on this. So Ashish, you are right. That volumes look stagnant, but please consider over last five years, we have actually lost more than 50,000 tons and then gained them through new customer acquisitions. Correct.So, you know, there was an anti-dumping scenario first, starting with Brazil and Canada, then South Africa in a different context but nevertheless, so you lost more than 50,000 tons.Still, the volumes not only held but they showed 5,6,7,8,10% growth, which means that my conversion continue to happen.Then came the Geopolitical tensions and the whole world going into a tailspin and the shipping freight going through the roof five times twice in the last three-Four years. Please understand the challenges and the fact my opportunities and then you know, we have continuously upgraded in terms of our capabilities.
So we’re talking of a GP benefit. We’re talking of fantastic Mining liner solutions.We are also talking of a cost reduction which is going to explain, do incidental is therefore very important? But does it undermine my opportunity?Does it reduce my opportunity from a $2 million or 1.5 to 2 million to maybe 500,000 tons of knock off? Clearly? No, what happens?
Yes, conversion is not exactly happening. The way we think multiple challenges continue every new day. There’s a new challenge but the strength of our solution is so materially powerful that 70 people globally working in various geographies in continuous interaction, duly supported by another 100 people from India. You see it’s a massive exercise.I don’t think one or two soft quarters will change the whole course of the company. But at the same time, being realistic is what we thought we should convey to investors very transparently that if my own clarity is not perfect, how can I tell you A B or C?
And that is exactly what we are conveying that does not mean that now my market is undermined, or I am now facing an opportunity, which is not exactly what I was talking about six months ago.So, you have actually gained the market and now there are chances that we will regain the market that are lost, but we continue to face new challenges, but we are undeterred. Absolutely undeterred about it.
Ashish Kejriwal
Understood, sir, I think that’s very appreciative that you have, you know, pre commented that the thing is that no, obviously conversion is a slow business or moving business, but in this time, are we facing resistance from customers to convert or because of which China is aggressively because they have excess production?
So, China is excessively marketing it and the GAAP between our product and the conventional product is so huge that people don’t want to change. Are we seeing such kind of infection or not right now?
Kunal Shah
And China, you know, on a strategic note that it is more of a commodity product supply, I think the whole thesis for AI across our both verticals and product line is, you know, the value that we bring in terms of designs and solutions, you know that we offer as a package.
And China always had a large internal market and you know, low technology, you know, products. So it’s not something that is new today and they were always for any product that they have a larger market, they always have core capacity.So it’s been there for the last 15 years. So broadly, nothing changes on China. So nothing has changed between, you know, five years ago and now. So.
Ashish Kejriwal
The last question, okay, short term, maybe some hiccups are there. But do we envisage that in next five years, our number. Can double from here?
Sanjay Majmudar
I definitely think so. That’s Okay.
Kunal Shah
That’s perfect. Thank you and all of that.
Sanjay Majmudar
Thank you. Kunal, I’m sorry, my I will have to Yeah, I love to drop off.
Operator
Thank you.The next question comes from Parikshit Gupta from Fair Value Capital. Please go ahead.
Parikshit Gupta
Hello, am I audible? Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you very much for the opportunity and just as a context, I am new to this company and a segment.So please pardon my lack of information. I just have one structural question. I understand that the grinding media is the largest business segment for the company along with expansion plans already undertaken.
So I understand that you are already mindful of the rate of growth of the requirement of grinding media would it be possible for you to please articulate if this growth will come mostly from the mining sector which contributes to I think about 70% of the business or if you could send all other segments.
Kunal Shah
All of it is expected from the mining sector, not mostly all of it.
Parikshit Gupta
Just to follow up on this. Please.Considering the cement manufacturers expansion along with you know, consolidation in big industry, especially in the southern parts of it would be.
Kunal Shah
This is a global business for us. India happens to be an important market. But you know, it is in the in the global sense of thing. Yes, there is a larger market and we’ll be natural beneficiaries of any growth that comes along. But we are not, we are also introducing new solutions with higher we etcetera.So in the theme of things, you know, the gross in cement in India per se may not be a material game changer on the on our overall volume, but we will surely add volume.
We’re just not, you know, talking and estimating that it’s these are sometimes longer gestation projects and you know, estimating things when it will fall on what calendar year or fiscal year, what volume will come is difficult to estimate.
Parikshit Gupta
Understood. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time and best wishes for this year.
Kunal Shah
All right. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you.As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Kunal Shah
Thank you so much. It’s been a, it’s not been a regular quarter in our last two quarters and I understand many of you may have been more follow up questions.I hope we can spare pun on the Diwali, you know, weekend coming up, but I’m available offline and both of us obviously will be available from next week onwards.So please do feel free to call us and we’ll try our best to, you know, help you get a better sense on this. I wish you all a very happy Diwali and a good evening. Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]