Meghmani Finechem Limited (MFL) Q4 FY22 Earnings Concall Transcript

Meghmani Finechem Limited (NSE: MFL) Q4 FY22 Earnings Concall dated Apr. 25, 2022

Corporate Participants:

Surabhi Sutaria — Research Associate at Go India Advisors LLP

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Kaushal Soparkar — Managing Director 

Analysts:

Manish Jain — Moneylife Advisory Services — Analyst

Rohit Nagraj — Emkay Global — Analyst

Madhav Dhanuka — FinTrust Capital — Analyst

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Ahmed Madha — Unifi Capital — Analyst

Niraj Mansingka — White Pine Investment Management — Analyst

Kedhar — KM Visaria Family Trust — Analyst

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Amit Vora — Homeopathy Clinic — Analyst

Aditya Jhawar — Individual Investor — Analyst

Nikhil Gandhi — Finserv Global Services — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 FY ’22 Earnings Conference Call of Meghmani Finechem Limited hosted by Go India Advisors LLP. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in a listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Ms. Surabhi Sutariya from Go India Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma’am.

Surabhi Sutaria — Research Associate at Go India Advisors LLP

Thank you, Aman. Good afternoon everybody and welcome to Q4 and FY ’22 earnings of Meghmani Finechem Limited. We have on the call Mr. Maulik Patel, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Kaushal Soparkar, Managing Director; Mr. Sanjay Jain, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. B. Ravi, Strategic Consultant and Mr. Milind Kotecha, Investor Relations Officer.

We must remind you that the discussion on today’s call may include certain forward-looking and must be therefore viewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces.

May I now request to Maulik to take us through the financials and the business outlook subsequent to which we will open the floor for questions. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Thank you, Surabhi. Good evening everybody and welcome to the call to discuss MFL’s quarter four and FY ’22 performance. I trust you had the opportunity to run through the earnings presentation which was shared earlier today.

This has been a landmark year for MFL, we debuted as an independent listed company in August 2021. We have always tried to and will continue to endeavor to create superior shareholder value through needed business model. This year we have also delivered a record financial performance and I’m happy to say that we would be able to meet our earlier stated guidance of our INR2,000 crore of revenue by FY23 itself, which is one year in advance of earlier guidance given. For FY23, we expect to grow by 20%, 22% in volume and 50% in value terms. I think now is the right time to discuss our five-year vision. We at MFL are targeting to deliver INR5,000 crore revenue by FY27, which translates to a revenue of CAGR of 25% from here on and with better ROCE.

I will briefly discuss this year’s performance. We have closed this year with highest ever revenue and PAT of INR1,551 crores and INR253 crores respectively. This can be attributed to a volume growth of 20% and high relations for all the products. We achieved this despite the tough external environments on account of ongoing geopolitical tension and subsequent supply chain disruption. While elevated price have played a key role in this performance, it has been our focus on cost control measures and higher operational efficiency, which delivered a strong margin growth. On account of entering into new derivatives and specialty chemical products like epichlorohydrin and chlorinated PVC, we expect our absolute EBITDA will grow substantially. We are confident that the absolute EBITDA is sustainable in the future, given our focus on improving efficiency addition of value-added derivative products in our basket and strengthening our fully integrated complex. The investments undertaken in the last couple of years for diversification of products continue to drive growth and increase our competitiveness. Our plants have achieved higher capacity utilizations and our new projects are on track for completion as per the schedule provided.

Further in line for continuous growth, we have announced our expansion in fluoropolymer and its value chain, which will be funded through internal accruals and this will help to further strengthen our fully integrated complex. To strengthen our feet in Specialty Chemicals segment, we are setting up R&D centers in Ahemdabad. We continue to move forward in our strategic direction of expanding scale, strengthening integration and exiting lowest cost of operation.

Now I will hand over the call to Mr. Sanjay Jain, our CFO who will take you through the financials.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Yeah. Thank you, Maulik and good evening everybody. As Maulik already mentioned before, we have achieved highest ever sales of INR1,551 crores, that is up by 87% compared to previous year. This is mainly on account of better realization for the product and higher volume of caustic soda and hydrogen peroxide. The overall plant retention of 87% which has improved by 6% compared to FY21. The portion of hydrogen peroxide has went up and the utilization of 78% in FY22 as compared to 57% in FY21. ECU realization of caustic soda and caustic potash increased by 74%, 27% respectively compared to previous year. ECU realization for caustic soda stood at 37,062 in FY22 compared to 21,300 in FY21. Sales realization of chloromethane and hydrogen peroxide increased by 53% and 20% respectively compared to previous year.

In absolute term, our EBITDA has closed to almost double that is IN509 crores compared to IN261 crores in FY21, the margin at 33% and that has gone up by 2.5 times to IN2,053 crores as margin improved to 16% compared to 12% in last year. On year-on-year basis for quarter four, the revenue from operation grew 93% to INR499 crores, backed by a better realization for all the products. EBITDA grew by 118% to INR175 crores with EBITDA margin saw highest level of 35% and PAT grew by 202% that is to INR99 crore compared to EBITDA margin of 20%. The long-term debt has increased by INR239 crores in FY22 as a company has borrowed additional long-term debt of INR359 on the expansion projects and made a repayment of INR120 crores.

Debt to EBITDA, which was 2.1 times in FY21 has decreased to 1.9 times in FY 22. The ratio improved substantially despite the fact that company has borrowed more fund for this capex project. This is due to the absolute growth in the EBITDA. On one to one comparison, our debt to EBITDA has improved to 1.5 times if you do not consider reclassification of preferential as a debt. The expansion project with commission especially plan we have incurred cash outflow for INR449 crores in FY22.

With this, we can open the floor for Q&A. Thank you.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Our first question is from the line of Manish Jain with Moneylife Advisory Services. Please go ahead.

Manish Jain — Moneylife Advisory Services — Analyst

Yeah. I just had one question. What is the demand outlook for the upcoming quarters for ECH with respect to the most of the industry.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Your voice was not clear. We were not able to hear you.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Can you repeat your question?

Manish Jain — Moneylife Advisory Services — Analyst

Hello. Can you hear me now?

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yeah.

Manish Jain — Moneylife Advisory Services — Analyst

So I wanted to ask regarding the demand outlook for the upcoming quarters for ECH.

Operator

Manish, sorry to interrupt, but your voice is not that clear. Request you to please speak up a bit.

Manish Jain — Moneylife Advisory Services — Analyst

Hello.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yeah.

Manish Jain — Moneylife Advisory Services — Analyst

Okay. Sorry. So my question is regarding the outlook for the upcoming quarters for ECH with respect to the domestic industry.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Regarding the ECH, right.

Manish Jain — Moneylife Advisory Services — Analyst

Yeah.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yeah. So Epichlorohydrin projects currently what we are doing, it is under final commissioning of the project and we are going to commission in probably next couple of months. Currently the ECH is in its peak demand due to the infrastructure projects are going on all over the world and the demand has picked up after the COVID situation. So in terms of the automobile, in terms of the windmill, renewable energy, in terms of the infrastructure, in terms of the poultry raising, demand is now all over the world is very high along with pharmaceutical and the water treatment demand has also gone up differently. So looking at this situation and along with this, there are logistic challenges in terms of the world. So people are facing supply issues right now all over the world. So domestic people they prefer to buy from the domestic manufacturing and this is a situation of the Epichlorohydrin right now and we continue to believe that it will remain the same for next one or two years time.

Manish Jain — Moneylife Advisory Services — Analyst

Okay.

Operator

Manish, is your question answered?

Manish Jain — Moneylife Advisory Services — Analyst

Hello. Yeah, my question is answered. Just wanted to ask that, can you just provide me the demand of in terms of tonnage per year.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

See, currently, the Indian demand, domestic demand is around 70,000 tons, 75,000 tons, which is also growing because domestic manufacturing people are continuously expanding to gather the market share, which is growing demand in the world. So people are setting up the additional capacity in India. So in next one to two years, we are expecting to grow in more than double digit of the epoxy resin in Indian capacity and so I think the demand probably next financial year, it will reach to more than 85 to 90 KTA in India.

Manish Jain — Moneylife Advisory Services — Analyst

Okay, thanks. That’s it from my side.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line of Rohit Nagraj from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.

Rohit Nagraj — Emkay Global — Analyst

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on very good set of numbers. My first question is in terms of caustic capacity which are coming apart from — so what is the expectation of new caustic capacity which will be coming in FY23 apart from our 100,000 tons.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Apart from?

Rohit Nagraj — Emkay Global — Analyst

Meghmani had 100,000 tons.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Other than the Meghmani’s 100 KTA, other plants are coming, it is growing like [Indecipherable] is also coming with the plant of caustic soda and which is gradually they are going to increase the capacity, but their project is on the verge of the commissioning, but what is the status of exact project, we are not able to comment on that.

Rohit Nagraj — Emkay Global — Analyst

All right. I just wanted a ballpark number, how much capacity increase may happen in FY23 once the new capacities from us and competitors come in. Just some ballpark number.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Frankly speaking, we are not able to comment exactly how much capacity they will grow in FY22 because majority or everybody is coming different, different time and their project status is — these projects are run for a longer period of time. So when they’re going to end and when they are going to commission, it is difficult to comment. I think you have to wait for that con call and then you are able to get the exact answer of that.

Rohit Nagraj — Emkay Global — Analyst

Right. Second question is caustic imports. So how has it helped in terms of the domestic demand-supply and what is the expectation of imports mainly at least over the next few quarters. Thank you.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Rohit, this is good question. But I mean caustic are not able to import in India since last six months. If you are seeing, we are net exporter right now and I think I believe that in next — looking at the current international demand and looking at the current infrastructure project and logistic challenges in Europe, major energy crisis is happening and some of the major force majeure plants are in USA. Looking at the current situation, we believe that we are going to continue doing exports from India for next couple of quarters at least.

Rohit Nagraj — Emkay Global — Analyst

Sure. Thanks a lot and best of luck. And if there are any more question, I will come back in the queue. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line of Madhav Dhanuka [Phonetic] from FinTrust Capital. Please go ahead.

Madhav Dhanuka — FinTrust Capital — Analyst

Thank you sir for giving me the opportunity and congrats to you for the numbers. [Technical Issues] can you throw some light on the debt repayment structure. Is it going to be increasing from year-on-year basis.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Okay. As I briefed in my presentation that our debt has increased, our debt has increased to our highest level of INR965 crores in FY22, but this is a peak level. Going forward, as per the — already we announced about 2000, we are going to do with the internal accruals. So we are not going to borrow the additional fund for that. And looking to the regular repayments, our debt will be reduced substantially because we are going to have round about INR142 crores to INR150 crores repayment on year-on-year basis. Looking to all these numbers, debt to the EBITDA will definitely remain below 2%, which is already been 1.9 in FY22.

Madhav Dhanuka — FinTrust Capital — Analyst

Thank you, sir. Sir, my next question is can you throw some light on capacity expansion, how is the capacity expansion helping improving margins and the products we are focusing in that capacity.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

So like we have announced the three major projects. One is epichlorohydrin second is a chlorinated PVC and third is the expansion of the caustic soda. So these three projects are going to commission probably one by one in next three to four months time. So in FY23, definitely our volume growth, we are expecting to achieve close to 20%, which is coming from all these three projects, going to start and commission up running and in FY24, we are expecting full-year basis, these all three projects will be running. So next two years and our expansion in our revenue will come from this expansion quantity, which we are going to commission in next three months.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

And to add to that, the products that we are getting into like ECH and CPVC are high-value products. So that will actually improve our absolute EBITDA, that will continuously grow. So to answer your question on margins level, margins will be again in the line of exactly, are into like 28% plus, minus 2% but this absolute EBITDA will improve our ROCE down the line.

Madhav Dhanuka — FinTrust Capital — Analyst

And thank you sir for this question. Sir, can you also tell me 2018 and 2019, our margins were substantially high EBITDA project to 43% when it was decreasing to 32% level. So is there any raw material problem that we are not passed upon still.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, you are right. This is a little bit on the higher side, 35% EBITDA margin. But in the longer term, whatever is the raw material prices are increased in last six months, we are able to pass on to the customers. That’s why our EBITDA margin is on the higher side. And we expect in the coming times also it will be like that because of the high demand of the products.

Madhav Dhanuka — FinTrust Capital — Analyst

Thank you, sir. And all the best.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Meherwan Kotwal from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

Yeah. Good evening, sir. Congratulations on the very strong set of numbers.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Thank you, sir.

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

I just had a few question. We were [Technical Issues] running in a fairly tight market before the international power fiasco has started taking place. So today, if I look at, let’s say, growth and I think their production of capacities under ton, I mean range of 10 to 15 million tons. And I think there would be number one very high power cost which they will now start having to pay with respect to caustic production. I think from what we can understand the power cost have gone up anywhere between 2 times, 2.5 times what they normally used to be. And I think even subsequently once they shift to Qatar Gas and stuff like that, the landed power cost will probably end up being 1.6 times, 1.7 times of what it originally was. Plus going into the winter months, I think there’ll be heightened uncertainty with respect to gas supplies from Russia, which I think is one of the main source of power for them. So in this light, are we seeing more inquiries coming in from some of these European players for having contracts with the domestic caustic manufacturers.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yes, you are right. This is also one of the reason over and above the high demand of the products because of the infrastructure projects started in the after COVID situation by different countries to come out of from the economic crisis situation. This is the reason in Europe right now. But other than that there are force majeure in the US also in some of the plants. That is also boosting demand in the caustic soda in the world market. Another reason is that there are high logistical cost, also the demand is picking by the nearby the countries where minimize the cost of the transportation for the caustic soda. So there are multiple reasons, which will lead to this kind of situation. Yeah. As you rightly said, other than the African regions and Europe also started inquiry for the caustic soda. So in India, we are a net exporter right now for the caustic soda. In the future in coming quarters also we believe that it will continue doing in for the caustic soda net exporter.

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

Right sir. As I think another participant earlier mentioned the some capacities are coming up. So now even we are putting up this 100 KTPA capacity. By when will it get commissioned and like GNAL also RSQ will not be very gradual in terms of production from this new capacity.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

I think this is very good question. So see, if you have noticed that after 2018, we are expanding our Chlor Alkali capacity based on our derivative expansion. And like chlorine derivatives and the hydrogen derivatives which we’re adding, for that we are expanding our caustic soda capacity. So we are going to believe in the complete integrated complex. And so majority of the expansion what we are doing it for ourselves, for internal consumption mainly. So it is a completely different model. I don’t think so it is compare apple to apple, different companies in the Chlor Alkali segment itself. But yeah, you rightly said that we are coming with a one single stroke, because this is not a big capacity. This is only 100,000 ton plant capacity expansion. So we are coming with the one stroked only and probably we will commission in the beginning of the second quarter.

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

Beginning of this, right. And you don’t see the market getting over-supplied with caustic because of GNAL’s as well as our capacity addition.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

See, caustic soda is never going to be issue in the world because right now it is short supply and people are doing the net export from the country like India. So our only challenge with the all the Chlor Alkali will be how they’re integrated, how they will consume chlorine and hydrogen. So as you rightly, I think you must have noticed that we are coming with the epichlorohydrin and the chlorinated PVC plant, which will consume chlorine which is coming out from our expansion of caustic soda plant. So we are well integrated. So we are better off we feel that in the coming times once we commission caustic soda along with both the derivatives together.

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

Thanks. So in our presentation that for the current quarter, we’ve done caustic realization of I think close to INR49,000 per ton. INR45,000 per ton last quarter. So two questions. Number one, is what is our current ECU realization for the quarter. INR49,000 per ton caustic realization, is chlorine bit pulling it down by INR2, INR3 or is there a net add given where we stand currently. So that is the first question.

And second question is a compared to the INR49,000 per ton average that we had for last quarter, how would the current realization stand.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

You rightly observed that issue, which was of roundabout which was a INR45,800 per ton last quarter in quarter three, that has increased to INR49,300 in quarter four. And going forward, we are looking to the demand, we are expecting it be bullish and as of now also is in the range of INR50,000 per ton issue as a whole for caustic soda like.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

So when we talked about ECU, it means it is net. Yeah.

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

Okay. So the ECU was INR50,000 per ton, caustic realization will be INR49,000 per ton for the quarter is my understanding, correct?

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

No. We are saying that our issue is INR49,000 per ton, which is net, including realization of [Speech Overlap] We expect that it will be in the same range in the coming quarters also.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

To answer your question, current caustic price is higher than the INR49,000 per ton. Yeah.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

We’re being conservative.

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

And sir, final question, sir, on power cost. I think in between there was a lot of worth with respect to imported coal and prices moving up, etc. Today, on a blended basis, what would our cost of unit of power be and how has this moved over the last couple of quarters.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

So I can comment that the last entire year our average cost of power is coming around 7.67, which is still irrespective of the coal prices increase, which is still lower than the grid power.

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

Correct. And grid power would be how much, INR12 right now, current rate.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

No, grid power is around 8.5. Which is also likely to increase based on the current situation. Yeah.

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

Right. But we feel that the caustic business probably now the unit power costs have picked up. Would that be a fair assessment.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

So looking at the current situation, it looks like it has picked up. But yeah, so it looks like picked up, because now the prices have been stabilized a bit. So yeah, you are right in that range.

Meherwan Kotwal — B&K Securities — Analyst

Right. That’s all the questions from my side. Wish you all the very best.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Riya Mehta from Aequitas Investments. Please go ahead.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Hello, sir. Firstly, congratulation on great set of numbers. My first question would be from context of power. So how much coal inventory do we have or how is the linkage is in place. Could you feel explain.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Riya, looking at our location, we are next to the port and majority of the coal we are importing from Indonesia of the power. So we don’t keep inventory a lot at our because it is the port is only five kilometers distance from our location. So normally we don’t keep more than a month coal in our yard. But definitely, in terms of the booking, we always, we can keep two, three months booking in advance, we can do it, but we don’t need to store at our location.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay. Sir, currently, the prices of the Indonesian coal had tightened up. So how had we hedged against it or what was our precarious move.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

I think we are not focusing to hedge or something. But, yeah, the coal prices increased, but same time, we are able to pass on this cost to the product and the sales realization also increased in the caustic soda. So as and when we are able to pass on the benefit, pass out the cost to the customers, so we are not concerned. So our EBITDA margin is well maintained. So we don’t try to hedge or something like that.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

What would be the current cost of acquisition of the coal right now.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

What kind of GCV pure buying it depends on that. So it is very difficult to judge a per ton cost of coal. So every time it depends on the cost of each GCV, we decide what kind of GCV we wanted to buy coal. So it is not a fixed price. Based on the GCV, we keep changing according to the time and the price.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

So basically you are saying we can more than offset the increase in cost on coal to and we can pass it on to the customers without taking a hit on the margins, right.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

That’s right. Yeah. That you can see very well in our results as well.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Yeah. Actually Q-o-Q, I was just seeing that our in fact, gross margins have improved rather than deteriorating. So what would be the key, how are we able to manage this.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

So that is the strength of the — if you read our presentation, that is strength of completely integrated complex where you don’t need to spend too much money on the manufacturing cost in terms of the sales and distribution. So when one product is coming out, it is going to the, another product which is value added chemistries, which is a strength of completely integrated complex. We can see —

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

No. I am talking Q-o-Q sir. Q-o-Q how has it improved. I’m sure it was all of these things are there in maintaining this year.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Only it is because of the sales realization and our volume growth is only 3%.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

All right. Okay. And second question would be one or two competitors have already put in place caustic capacities. So going forward, do we see any different capacity utilization for caustic soda or decrease in ECUs.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Caustic soda is — if I give you the answer of this question, I would say no because the caustic soda demand is growing year by year depends on the GDP of the country. So in current situation, I believe that in once in a year we require two sizable size of the caustic soda plant to commission. It is required in India, looking at the growth in terms of the infrastructure spending, looking at the renewable energy is spending, looking at the pharmaceutical industries as well as the agrochemical industries, looking at the PLI scheme launched by the government. So we believe that once in a year sizable caustic soda plant has to come in India which can easily absorb in terms of the chlorine, hydrogen or caustic soda.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay. [Indecipherable] increase in capacity will be absorbed and we would be running at more than 89% capacity utilization, which we did this quarter. Am I right?

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yes.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay. And ECU would we see any detrimental because of change in demand-supply dynamic or we will see similar kind of ECUs.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

See, in the next — it is very difficult to forecast for longer period of time, but I would say for the next three months, yeah, we would say that the next, the current issue, which can sustainable — around sustainable. Yeah.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay. Also as per your guidance, 50% growth in terms of value and 22% in terms of volume. What would be the schemes as an industry we are looking at, what would be the key segments. Like, I’m sure it is new adding up of the capacities but which area do we see more demand coming from and where do we see this kind of growth coming from.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

See, if you say about the last quarter [Speech Overlap]

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

So compared to the last year or this year, there is a huge difference in terms of the infrastructure, yeah, that was very constant. But looking like a paper industries and the textile industries, which was not doing great in last financial year, it is supposed to start doing in terms of the performance. I think there is a great demand from these two sectors coming up now, which is sizable in terms of the caustic soda.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Actually I was talking in terms of your overall guidance, volume in the 20% and value growth of 50. For the next year, where do we see it coming from because I think paper and textile already picked up in FY22, so for FY23 and forward, which sector do we see this coming majorly from and what [Indecipherable].

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yeah. So in terms of overall, I think if you we are coming up with epichlorohydrin and CPVC plan. So the major volume growth will come from these two major along with our caustic soda expansion. So all these three sector, epichlorohydrin which is completely new sector, which we are going to start catering which is raising pharmaceutical and the water treatment manufacturing and CPV which is the different addition of the segment, which is hot water pipe application for household. So these are the two major application, which we feel that the growth will come in next financial year or I believe FY23 as well as FY24.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay. And although realization over here are also sustainable, right.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yes. In fact the realizations over here are higher compared to the products that we are into. So just to highlight on that part, the asset turnover ratio that we generally used to enjoy from our old products here that will be even higher. So that will ultimately help us to have an absolute EBITDA bring continuously.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay. Thank you so much sir for your detail.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Ahmed from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead.

Ahmed Madha — Unifi Capital — Analyst

Thank you for opportunity sir. The first question was regarding epichlorohydrin. I think you told number a more about 70,000 to 80,000 tons, is it correct.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yeah, that’s correct.

Ahmed Madha — Unifi Capital — Analyst

Okay. So if we look at the total supply coming up, we are coming up with 50,000 ton capacity and DCM Shriram is coming up with 50,000 and capacity. And then there is imports coming to our country. So in that sense, will there be any discrepancy between the demand supply in FY23 and FY24, what are your thoughts.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yeah, that’s a good question. Normally you the chemical plants like epichlorohydrin which will take normally two to 2.5 years time to commission the project. If you can see in our case also almost two years, which we are going to commission again this quarter, EPH plant. And Indian demand is growing in a double-digit for the epoxy resin along with other application like pharmaceutical and the water treatment facility manufacturing. That is also growing at double digit. So if you notice that the epoxy resin manufacture has also announced the capacity expansion in India. So we don’t have any issue in coming times, if the ECH capacity will expand in India. We see the next five years the Indian growth of epichlorohydrin kind of product is going to continue in the double digits.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Yeah. If I can just add to that, Maulik. So basically, by the time what you said there are other suppliers coming up in terms of the commissioning the plant, so by the time we commission the plant the demand, which is right now around 75000, 80,000 KTPA will definitely cross 1 lakh thousand tonnes per annum, considering the new capacities of epoxy resin plants are coming in India. So it’s like because there are suppliers of ECH, the demand for the supply and the manufacturing of epoxy resin also increasing in India. So that said we are confident enough to get that supply easily in the market.

Ahmed Madha — Unifi Capital — Analyst

Got it. But sir, capacity, I think our capacity is coming in the cost o expense and DCM’s capacity is coming in second half, imports will continue as they are. So in that context, we will be stationed, there will be some demand gap will be there, because supply is definitely higher than the demand. So my question is coming to that one, how do we look at the realizations and the pricing moving for ECH in the domestic market.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

I think I’m not sure, but I think, can you check to your data, I think there is year is a difference. You are seeing second half, but which year.

Ahmed Madha — Unifi Capital — Analyst

FY23.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

I don’t think so. But if so, I think we are not able to comment on that, but I think it is not in FY23.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yeah. To our knowledge, DCM is coming up there from the early of FY24, and by that time comes, the demand for the ECH will be growing faster and plus currently, the 75,000 to 80,000 [Speech Overlap] that is import data that is also on a shortage side.

Ahmed Madha — Unifi Capital — Analyst

Got it. Yeah. But they guided about Q4 FY23 or you said FY24 both are same. So it doesn’t matter. Okay, that’s okay. Now second question is on the caustic export. So of the 270K turns we did this year, what percentage will be in excess.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

In last financial year?

Ahmed Madha — Unifi Capital — Analyst

Yes sir.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

In last financial, we have exported only 5% of including all the products, so 95% of the products we are doing domestic.

Ahmed Madha — Unifi Capital — Analyst

Okay. And incrementally whatever volume to expect or do we expect high set of exports.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Looking at will current realization, we are getting better in the domestic market. So we prefer to do it continuing into selling in more quantity in the domestic market, but in the future if we increase the realization in the export, definitely, we would like to love to do that in the export. So we don’t decide a ratio from the beginning, we decide based on the realization where we wanted to export or domestic. So we keep changing, it is not a fixed strategy whether we are for the domestic or we wanted to sell in our export market, but yeah, current situation, we believe that the domestic are giving more realization. So we would like to continue with the same kind of ratio in coming times as well.

Ahmed Madha — Unifi Capital — Analyst

Got it. Sir, last and very basic question is what is the total sales mix, what percentage is captive, how much we are procuring from grid.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

So currently out of the total requirement almost you can say 100% or 98% will be met from the internal captive power plant and there is hardly that we take from grid, as and when required we take it from grid.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

So the ratio is very low, but in the future, it will be around 90%-10% kind of situation.

Ahmed Madha — Unifi Capital — Analyst

Okay, got it. Thank you so much. All the best.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Niraj Mansingka from White Pine Investment Management. Please go ahead.

Niraj Mansingka — White Pine Investment Management — Analyst

Thank you. Just a few questions. One, what is the difference between the realization of the exports and the domestic market for caustic.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

The export market is driven by so many factors. So it keep changing. So sometimes if it is a good demand, there is a force majeure in some of the plant if there is a logistical issues. So it depends on many factors. But, yeah so there is always a difference and sometimes we get higher realization in the exports, we prefer to do export, but majority time we are getting higher realization in the domestic market and automatically if the export price is increasing automatically, the reflection in the domestic is also coming of the caustic soda.

Niraj Mansingka — White Pine Investment Management — Analyst

But just a thought process, do you see that with the start of the GNAL plant, you may need to do a higher export and hence the realization may have some amount of moderation.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

See, if you are talking about general cost caustic soda industry as a caustic soda from the western region already in last one year if you see the data, we are continuously doing the export one by one. So definitely the plant will increase, because looking at the current situation in the world markets where the demand is very high of caustic soda, it is not going to be any issue even though we need to do more quantity of the export because Gujarat is sea area and the majority of the ports are nearby. So for the caustic soda kind of manufacturing, we are nearby the port area. So I don’t think so it is a major issue to do export more quantity if it is required to do it in the coming times.

Niraj Mansingka — White Pine Investment Management — Analyst

Any [Technical Issues] to start.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

I cannot able to comment on that.

Niraj Mansingka — White Pine Investment Management — Analyst

Okay. Because it will impact your — Okay. That’s the reason I was asking you. Okay. The other thing is on the, can you share of the realizations right now and what is the margins on the ECH, on the current pricing.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

I don’t think so. We have already given a guidance that we are able to maintain 28 plus or minus 2% EBITDA as overall as a company has overall. So it is, we are not able to comment on the exact particular product-wise margin.

Niraj Mansingka — White Pine Investment Management — Analyst

Okay. So is there [Technical Issues].

Operator

Your voice is breaking, Niraj. Request you to please come in at network area. It seems we have lost the line for the current participant. We will move to our next question. That is from the line of Kedhar [Phonetic] from KM Visaria Family Trust. Please go ahead.

Kedhar — KM Visaria Family Trust — Analyst

Yeah. Hello team, my question is related to coal. So what was the consumption cost in the last fourth quarter.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

The coal prices were around INR9,000 and consumption we have around about INR60,000 on a monthly basis. So for the quarter INR180,000.

Kedhar — KM Visaria Family Trust — Analyst

So I just want to confirm that we are talking about consumption cost, not the purchase cost, right, because you will be getting some part of that inventory in the next quarter. So this INR9,000 is the consumption cost in the fourth quarter. And what is the like to like consumption cost in the first April month.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Sorry. Can you repeat your question.

Kedhar — KM Visaria Family Trust — Analyst

So the number what you gave INR9,000 consumption cost of coal in the fourth quarter, what is the like to like number for the April month coal consumption cost.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

For April month, so every week there is a coming of coal index, which is very standard and definitely available. So based on that the price movement of the coal is happening right now and we are buying based on the index of the coal index, which is published by the various agencies. So based on that, it keep changing, it is not fixed always [Speech Overlap]

Kedhar — KM Visaria Family Trust — Analyst

Yeah. The idea is to understand like, it has gone up by 20%, 25%, 30% just to get some sense there.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

See, month to month, there is a variation, but it is not — the variation is not high currently. It is not the variation compared to the last three, four months the variation of the coal price is not very high right now.

Kedhar — KM Visaria Family Trust — Analyst

Okay, so let’s to understand like we are seeing about INR1 increase in the EUC realization compared to quarter four to April so far. The coal cost is similar about that range only, so that EBITDA spread per kg is broadly stable. That’s what the fair assumption.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Yeah.

Kedhar — KM Visaria Family Trust — Analyst

Okay, thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Alisha Mahawla from Envision Capital. Please go ahead.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Hi sir, good evening and thank you for taking my question. Just wanted to clarify all your comment, for the year we’ve done 20% volume growth, is that correct.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yes.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Okay. So in that case, obviously, we’ve seen very strong realizations, obviously, especially on the caustic soda side. So just wanted to understand that when we do talk about next year, a 50% volume growth, are we expecting that realization to sustain at the current level, because that is fairly optimistic.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

I think 50% value-wise and 20% growth we have announced for the next financial year.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Yeah. 50% will be on the base of this year, right.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

50% basis up from that this year basis, but that is value growth. So volume-wise, it is going to be 20% based on the current financial year — last financial year.Which I understand which will be because of the new capacities that are coming in the newer segments.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Which I understand which will be because of the new capacities that are coming in the newer segments.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

That’s right. And in the last financial year, whatever 20% growth, which we have achieved because of whatever the expansion, which we have done in two years, 1.5 year ago about the hydrogen peroxide and the caustic soda expansion because of that we are getting a result in last financial year. So currently, what we are going to do it all three expansions, which will give us the result in FY23 as well as FY24.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Okay. But this is still on the assumption that the current realizations will sustain because first we need to hit our 1500 mark and then only we can talk about an incremental 50% growth, which I understand is a mix of volume and value, anyway. The second question was that earlier, I believe the guidance were just to be that the March and this I believe is also mention the last quarter call, the EBITDA margin would be in the range of 28% to 32%, but now we’re talking about 28 plus, minus 2%. Are the newer products going to be at relatively lower margins or they will take longer to stabilize.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

See, on the EBITDA side, again I mean if the prices are in moving line what we have anticipated it can be around 30% but on a conservative side, it can go 26%. So last quarter also we had mentioned the same thing, 20% plus-minus EBITDA margin that will be able to maintain.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Okay. Sure. And the new capex that we are announcing in the chloro toluene side, are we quantifying what is the kind of capex we’re looking to do here.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

So overall capex, we have already announced, we are going to do it in the chloro toluene derivative project around INR180 crores. Out of part of the capex of INR180 crore we are going to spend in the next financial in the current year, current financial FY23 and part will be done in the FY24.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

And what is the kind of acetone we’re expecting on this investment.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Acetone turnover issue again here will be around 2.5 to 3 times.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Okay.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Okay. And all so just to Alisha to answer your earlier question in terms of the guidance of 50% in terms of value growth that is again on a normal basis side. So we have considered the realizations which are peak at right now, but the products that we are getting into ECU are high value products because of which we are at least reasonably confident enough to reach to have a 50% growth on the current FY23, which is around 2250 of revenue.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Understood. One last question if I may. So these three new capacities that will come on stream during the year, I believe, in an earlier call, you had mentioned that actually they will add about 1,000 crores to our revenue and our existing capacity is also currently running at almost, so let’s say between this we can do INR2500 crores to INR3000 crores and the chloralkali will add another INR500 crores, INR550 crores and we have a vision to reach INR5,000 crores by 2027. So are we looking at more newer products, any other announcement.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Yeah. So as you are rightly explained, the ECS and CPVC on a full year basis, we are able to reach close to INR3,000 crore at current conditions and prices and the chloro toluene will add around INR3,500 crore up to eventually in the first phase and second phase. So we have targeted to reach INR5,000 crore along with different options. So as and when in the time goes, we are expanding one by one projects, but we are making sure that our debt-to-EBITDA will remain not more than two.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Sure. Okay. And we are not looking at adding capacity in hydrogen peroxide or chloromethanes currently.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Many projects are under discussions, right now, which will lead to us to reach at INR5,000 crores, but once Board will approve we are able to announce that at the right time.

Alisha Mahawla — Envision Capital — Analyst

Okay, thank you so much.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Indecipherable]. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Hello, good evening, sir and congratulations on a great set of numbers. Just a couple of questions from my side. Just to add on to previous participants question. This added volume that you are going to generate from the value added products, epichlorohydrin and CPVC resin, what are the volumes we are expecting in coming quarters like Q1 or Q2 FY23 from them.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

So again ECH and CPVC is something yet to get commissioned. So ECH we had announced Q1, so by maybe in the May or June we will commission ECH and Q2, I mean the CPVC will commission early Q2 and the additional capacity of caustic soda. So for ECH and CPVC it generally takes three months’ time to optimum capacity utilization. So you can say this year, we will have a partial benefit of ECH and CPVC and FY24 will be a year where we will get the full benefit. So initially three months, it might turn on 50% capacity and post that the slowly gradually the capacity realization will improve for CPVC and ECH. And caustic soda I guess in a month or two months’ time, it will reach to the — slowly improve its optimum capacity utilization.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Okay, excellent. And sir, what is the percentage of exports that we do within caustic soda.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

So currently, it is very miniscule because as Maulik sir earlier said that as the price — because we generally focus based on the realization. So if the export prices go up, similarly, that has an impact on the domestic price also. So currently there is hardly anything it was an export, but tomorrow if we get a higher realization for our products in the global market, we might go for exports, but right now, it is very less.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Okay. And lastly regarding this, 8% differential that we have issued of the INR211 crores [Indecipherable] what is the timeline for its interest been like. Do we pay at the end of the year or are we considering the payment equally throughout the quarter.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Okay. With regard to this INR211 crores which belongs to the [Indecipherable] we are making provision of this interest at the rate of 8%, but we are going to pay on a annually basis, not on a quarter-to-quarter basis. So cash outflow will be on a yearly basis.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

So cash outflow amounts to somewhere around INR16 crores to INR20 crores and I don’t think so that we see those INR16 crores in this year Q4 results. So when are we planning to pay like the first outflow of that interest payment.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

You are talking about cash outflow?

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Yes.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

It’s going to be take place because we are waiting for the bidding, which is of living there today. So maybe in the next two months, we are going to be [Indecipherable] before June 30.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Okay. And also what are our plans regarding redeeming these shares.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Actually, the redemption period is of 20 years. So we are going to redeem, look into cash flow in future, but as of now the redemption is 20 years. So let me do a growth trajectory. We are not expecting to release in the near future. As of now, actually not in next two to three years. I only asked this as company is generating good amount of cash flows and this is good time for our company. So the only question that it raises is, if not now then when? Are we planning to reduce our debt first, and then probably draw the timeline regarding payments of funds.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

I only asked this as company is generating good amount of cash flows and this is good time for our company. So the only question that it raises is, if not now then when? Are we planning to reduce our debt first, and then probably draw the timeline regarding payments of funds.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

The strategies of repaying per country vary. You’re right in terms of the cash flows, which have been generated now. But if you see the expansion projects are just getting completed in the current financial year. Thereafter. The free cash flow will be actually available. So looking into that and whatever are the dividend policy, which the management is deciding, keeping both these things in view and also the debt EBITDA ratios which we have already guided under two. Keeping all the three things in view, probably there could be a talk on repayment, but at this point in time there is nothing, which is concrete.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Okay, thank you. That’s all from my side.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Lucky Investment Managers. Please go ahead.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Sir, after this 49,000 history that we see in your presentation, what is the kind of movement that are in the issue realization and what is the corresponding cost increases, any, let’s say, what we see in April. And my second question is, we have this capacity mentioned as 315,000 per caustic, but quarterly volume that I see 70, is that the capacity operates side with 90% or there is a scope for improvement. And my last question is we have our expansion plan of about 110,000 in caustic and what capex per ton in new capacities would come up in the system. It would be very helpful to understand.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Just to give you the starting from the last question which you are asking for capex. Every company has a different timing, they are expanding and they are debottlenecking that capacity. So looking at the existing infrastructure in the complex, I believe that this 110,000 tons what we are planning to do on capex, which is very low because majority of the expansion and the capex, which we have done in the previous phase of expansion, we are going to utilize majority of the infrastructure from that expansion. But it is very difficult to comment exact numbers in the forum.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

But if you want supposed to — okay, I’ll put it this way. So suppose you put a greenfield today, what if you come at.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

See, if you would do it a greenfield today, it is very difficult to comment because the current situation where the steel, cement, all the equipments, prices are crazy right now. So I think even company like us, we have experience of last 12 years also we need to redo everything to exactly calculate what kind of capex will be done based on current situation. It is very difficult to comment for the current part. Yeah.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Okay. If you could give then my answers to the first two questions. What are the issue realization now and what are the cost increases after the quarter.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Issue realization is about INR49,000 in quarter four and we expect that it mean the same levels in the range INR49,000 to INR50,000 in coming quarters also.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

We are not seeing change in terms in the coming quarters. We are not expecting major change in terms of the raw material cost as well, input cost as well.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Okay. And my second question was our rated capacity 315, partly volume is 70. So you did that capacity operation at 90% or there is scope to take it to 100%.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

I think the optimal capacity to run a plant of 90% on capacity of 315 KTA it’s optimal level.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Okay. And sir, just coming back to my third question, let’s say in the past I have seen lot of capacity, you said INR40,000 a ton in capacity which were before the steel price rise. When this INR40,000 capacity capex we now substantially higher let’s say 40%, 50% higher for new capex or it will not be that much as a number. If you could at least guide us there.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Yeah. I can say it is minimum 50% higher at least, but exact number is very difficult.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

So it is 40%, 50% higher, the new capex.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

That’s right. Yeah.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Okay, sir. Thank you very much. And all the best to you, sir. Thank you.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Thank you.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Dr. Amit Vora from the Homeopathy Clinic. Please go ahead.

Amit Vora — Homeopathy Clinic — Analyst

Yeah, good evening. Good evening, Maulik and congratulations for the excellent set of numbers. I hope I am audible.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yes.

Amit Vora — Homeopathy Clinic — Analyst

Yeah. So as I see from most of the questions, we have done an excellent year last year, FY 22. The fear that is, that will we be able to maintain these kind of sales going, seeing the caustic soda prices are high, last year was high, but will we be able to maintain these kind of sales and the margins. And also, as we all know that [Indecipherable] is coming up with a capacity of 106,000 for caustic soda. But you have also answered about caustic soda that we have, there is no fear about that, but still the only fear is that whether we will be able to maintain these kind of sales.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

It is very difficult to give the exact answer of your question, but I can comment that in this year, we have reached the issue, which is very good right now and it is going to continue we believe. But in FY21 we have achieved the lowest ECU. So I believe that in coming time, irrespective of anything there is no possibility to reach back to a original level of FY21 or the first quarter of FY22. Yeah, so there is a possibility it might go down a little bit, but I don’t think so it will come back to original level of FY21 or the quarter one of FY22.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Normally these things, the visibility of this could be a maximum of a quarter. As we stand today, probably the next quarter, this quarter at least looks good, but this month has been good in terms of the realizations. Maybe at the end of this quarter when we meet for the Q1 results probably we could see reassessed it again.

Amit Vora — Homeopathy Clinic — Analyst

Okay. And what is the percentage of caustic soda that we use internally after looking out six months down the line, after all the expansions have started. What will be the percentage of caustic soda that will be used internally out of the total, even the new addition 4,25,000 if we added with existing 3,15,000 plus 1,10,000.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

So including the pipeline customers and the captive, we are going to be after the ECS commissioning. We are going to be consumer approximately around 15% of that our capital.

Amit Vora — Homeopathy Clinic — Analyst

15% will be used internally, you mean to say?

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

I mean pipeline customers as well as internally I would say.

Amit Vora — Homeopathy Clinic — Analyst

Okay, and one last question. Our debt is around INR960 crores and I think someone told someone told the 140 crore will be returned. So repayment, yeah. So 966 crore minus 140 crore.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

That is not 965 crores in FY22, that is March 31, 2022 and on the basis of the cushion, we are saying that we have a repayment of round of INR140 crores on a year-to-year basis. So that means INR140 crores will be outflow in the FY23.

Amit Vora — Homeopathy Clinic — Analyst

Currently, we are not paying it in April or anywhere down the line.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

As per the repayment schedule, quarter-to-quarter this repayments will be there.

Amit Vora — Homeopathy Clinic — Analyst

Okay, got it. Thank you so much.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Long-term debt is only INR909 crore.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of Aditya Jhawar as an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.

Aditya Jhawar — Individual Investor — Analyst

Hello. Congrats for great set of numbers. I have question from the longer-term perspective like you said that FY27 you will have the INR5,000 revenue. But I want to understand whether the growth aspects right now we’re going into as you discussed that chlorotoluene chemistry. So what are the more avenues that we will go on the acquisition, how will we achieve this, because as we say that we want to move some commoditized to derivative segment, right. So what are the more avenues where we will see the growth. I want to understand broadened picture on this.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

From current level to the next phase, up to INR3,000 crore at the current conditions we are able to reach by chlorinated PVC and the epichlorohydrin project which we have announced, and which you are going to commission in the next quarter, next three to four months’ time and the chlorotoluene what we have announced. So remaining projects are, as we have mentioned in the earlier question as well that we are going to, there are many projects are under discussion, but we are going to enter in the chemistry, which is first time in mean India and which the replacement of the import substitute and which is chlorine or hydrogen derivative. So that is going to be the primary focus, but we are not able to comment on the exact project what we are going to come. So at the right time after the Board approval, we are going to announce that project as well.

Aditya Jhawar — Individual Investor — Analyst

Okay. So wherever we are entering, suppose we are entering in any import substitution, there we want to achieve scalability like we want to be the largest purchaser or we want to, based on the demand will cut at the capacity.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

Depends on the molecule, what kind of molecule, it is export-oriented or it is only on the domestic base. So based on the each molecule has each strength and weaknesses. Based on that evaluation, we are going to decide the capacity and every organization has their own appetite for the commissioning of the project. What kind of capacity they would like to come. So that right capacity also we decide based I think probably in the right time we will declare the capacity of the new project as well.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Nikhil Gandhi from Finserv Global Services. Please go ahead.

Nikhil Gandhi — Finserv Global Services — Analyst

Hi, am I audible.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yes.

Nikhil Gandhi — Finserv Global Services — Analyst

First of all, congratulations on great set of numbers. I will just start at couple of questions and maybe you have answered them in previous — someone has asked, but lets just go ahead and ask those question. But the first one is about epichlorohydrin. So in the last quarterly meeting it was mentioned that project was completed 90% and it was going to get commissioned in the first quarter of FY23. So do we know exact update like when it will be commissioned and that is adding on top line and the bottom line.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

Yeah. So we are planning to commission this trial run we are going to start probably from May 15 and by end of May or beginning of June we are going to commission the project full-fledged and we are going to announce. That is the time schedule we have planned based on the today’s situation for epichlorohydrin.

Nikhil Gandhi — Finserv Global Services — Analyst

And in the initial few quarters like how much would be the utilization we are expecting the revenue from the epichlorohydrin project like lifting first part half or second quarter like, is it going to be like more than 50%.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

So in Q2, the capacity utilization would be somewhere around 40%, 50% and then Q2 onwards it will gradually increase.

Nikhil Gandhi — Finserv Global Services — Analyst

Okay. And the second question was regarding caustic soda like I remember in the quarter I think quarter two of FY22, you mentioned that the caustic soda prices will remain till the February of this year, which was correct assessment on your end. So right now we see that there is a uptrend on the caustic soda prices, but how long you assess that the prices will remain comp. Just an assessment from your end because I thought that your assessment was pretty positive, and it was correct. So I just want to get assessment on the future as how the [Indecipherable] of caustic soda will be.

Maulik Patel — Chairman and Managing Director

See, currently the demand is very high in international market as well as domestic market because another new two sectors, which was down in the domestic segment like paper and textile which was also picked up in last couple of months. So we are expecting high growth, but it is going in tandem with the energy cost right now in the whole situation. So as energy cost is going to go down little bit, definitely there is a possibility there is a correction of the caustic soda prices as well. But I believe that there is no impact on the margin in next couple of quarters.

Operator

Thank you, Mr. Gandhi, request you to join the queue for any follow-up. We have the next question from the line of Sanket Goradia VEC Investments. Please go ahead. Sanket, your line is umuted for question. Please go ahead. Seems like no response from the line. We will move to our next question. That is from the line of Niraj Mansingka from White Pine Investment Management. Please go ahead.

Niraj Mansingka — White Pine Investment Management — Analyst

Yes, there is a follow-up. Just one last question is, I could not get an answer. The coal prices, what is the cost of power right now in the last quarter, in the Q4.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

You are talking about cost of generation?

Niraj Mansingka — White Pine Investment Management — Analyst

Yes. Like you had given a number of 7.67 per is the last year number. I just wanted to get Q4 number.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

I think Maulik had answer the power cost is down about 7.67% for the year as a whole for FY22. Quarter, you are talking about quarter four?

Niraj Mansingka — White Pine Investment Management — Analyst

Yes.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

It is about 9.15 per unit of the generation. INR9.15.

Niraj Mansingka — White Pine Investment Management — Analyst

Okay. And related question, do you see this increase, how much do you think increase or decrease on this number. I think you said that you don’t see much in but just wanted to get a number.

Sanjay Jain — Chief Financial Officer

It feel this price is at the peak. But again, where it will go from here on, it’s anyone’s guess. So I guess we cannot comment on that.

Operator

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, due to paucity of time that would be our last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kaushal Soparkar for closing comments. Thank you and over to you.

Kaushal Soparkar — Managing Director

In conclusion let me highlight that MFL is a very well suited for numerous end-user segments. Our roadmap for near-term as well as long-term appears promising as we incorporate new downstreams and value-added products offering while also strengthening our existing platform of resources. Once again, thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen for joining us today. If there are still unanswered question, please feel free to reach us to our IT. Thank you everyone for your participation. Have a great evening ahead stay safe, stay well. Thank you.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]