Note: This is a preliminary transcript and may contain inaccuracies. It will be updated with a final, fully-reviewed version soon.
CCL PRODUCTS (INDIA) LTD (NSE: CCL) Q4 2026 Earnings Call dated May. 08, 2026
Corporate Participants:
Praveen Jaipuriar — Chief Executive Officer
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Deepak Saha — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Kashyap Javeri — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Vivek Ganguly — Analyst
Bhavya Sonawala — Analyst
Richa Agarwal — Analyst
Naim Patel — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Unidentified Participant
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, Good day And welcome to CCL Products India Limited Q4FY26 earnings conference call hosted by Ashika Institutional Equity. As a reminder, all biaspin lines will be in the listen only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr.
Deepak Saha from Ashika Institutional Equities. Thank you. And over to you, Mr. Saha.
Deepak Saha — Analyst
Thank you, Michelle. Good morning everyone. On behalf of Ashika Institution equities. It’s indeed a great pleasure to host the 4Q, FY26 and full year 26 earnings call of CCL Products Limited. Joining us today to discuss the earnings for the fourth quarter and full year ended 31st March 2020 are Mr. Chala Sushant, Managing Director. Mr. Praveen Jai Puriyar, Chief Executive Officer. Mr. B. Mohan Krishna, Executive Director. Mr. Chaitanya Raju, Chief Financial Officer. And Ms. Sri David Asari, Company Secretary and Compliance Officer.
We thank the management for giving us the opportunity to hold this call. I would now like to hand over the call to Praveen sir for his opening remarks post which will open the floor for Q and A. Thank you. Over to you, Praveen.
Praveen Jaipuriar — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah. Thank you, Deepak. And thank you team Ashika Institutional securities for hosting this call. Good morning everyone. I welcome you all to the fourth conference call of FY 2526. And now let me give a brief overview of the company’s performance for the fourth quarter and the year gone by. The group has achieved a turnover of 1226.39 crores for the fourth quarter which is as compared to 839.65 crores for the corresponding quarter of the previous year achieving a growth of 46%. The EBITDA stands at rupees 193.76 crores as against rupees 167.1 crores which is a growth of 16%.
While the profit before tax is rupees 123.1 crores growing at 16%. And the net profit stands at 114.53 crores with a growth of 12%. As far as the full year is concerned. The group has achieved a turnover of 4465.80 crores as compared to rupees 3114.2 crores. For the corresponding previous year achieving a growth of 43%. The EBITDA stands at rupees 741.38 crores as against 563.54 crores which is a growth of 32%. While the profit before tax is rupees 460.74 crores growing at 31% and the net profit stands at 388.11 crores.
With a growth of 25%. The domestic business has achieved a gross turnover of 650 crores approximately out of which the brand sales were around about of 440 crores. And now Continental as a brand is well established as the number three player in the country and in some regions and platforms we are also the number two player and we will look to further strengthen this position in the coming months and years. As far as green coffee prices are concerned, they remain to be stable as of now, which is a good sign.
The Brazilian crop is around the corner and with the positive news of good supplies, we have a belief that the prices could further soften in the coming months. The Middle east crisis does pose a challenge with a bit of supply disruptions and energy price increase. But we have managed the situation well and do not see much of disruption going forward. I will just ask Chaitanya, our CFO to give a little bit of a color on the balance sheet performance post which we will open the floor for questions.
Thank.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju — Chief Financial Officer
You. Good morning everybody. Adding to what is highlighted by CEO, we are closing the financial year on a very strong note with revenue and profit both growing for the. Growing significantly for the quarter and for the full financial year. A key area of focus for us this year has been strengthening of the balance sheet. We’ve always been delivering very good operational results with the CAGR of close to 20%. What we have done this year is to ensure that the operational results get translated into a real balance sheet strength.
The balance sheet right now is much leaner, cleaner and lot healthier with healthy cash flows and debt coming down significantly. The net Debt as of 31st March is around 1073 crores, a reduction of more than 750 crores from last year. Debt to equity is at 0.5 compared to 0.92 a year ago. Net debt to EBITDA is at 1.45 right now compared to 3.1 a year ago. With that I hand over to Deepak for questions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and Answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may please press star and one on their touchstone form. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Abhishek Mathur from Systematics.
Please go ahead.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Yes. Hi sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So, just wanted to check what, what would be our volume growth for the quarter? Also has the EBITDA per kg, which is a key metric, has it come down to a level of about 130 which is a bit down sequentially from maybe 140 that we saw in the previous quarter. And what is driving the strong realizations on the top line for us to have clocked this kind of a growth? Thanks.
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah, hi Vik, just to clarify, sorry, the first thing that you asked was on Rusty
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
On the volume growth for the quarter. So
Praveen Jaipuriar
Our volume growth, you know, has been, and I’m speaking on a little larger four quarter perspective has been in the range of 18, 20% this year. And the quarter was also very similar. So volume growth stands at that level. And EBITDA per kilo, again, probably this quarter was a little bit of a down considering the proportion of coffee that you sell. Because if you would have seen last quarter, but much higher high margin coffees were sold. But on an annual basis, in fact the EBITDA per kilos has improved from previous year.
So that’s an improvement. And you know, as we have been guiding most of the time, some of these key matrixes on a quarter level may not give the right picture. So while one sees a sequential drop a bit, but I don’t think so that’s, there’s much to read into that. On an annual basis, in fact, the per kilo Victor has improved.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Great. Sir, just a follow up second question, sir. What. So we have, we have earlier given the guidance for 10 to 20% volume growth and maybe a 15 to 20% EBITDA growth. Anything changing for FY27? How is our guidance looking now?
Praveen Jaipuriar
So the guidance is very similar. Probably we are giving a guidance of both volume at around 15% and even EBITDA at around 15%. So that’s, that will be the thing. While things have stabilized, quite a few things have stabilized since the last year. But you know, keeping the other volatility in mind, we are sticking to the volume growth guidance of 15% and the resultant EBITDA growth will also be in the same region.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Great. And finally the guidance on the India business and also any capex thoughts that we have, capacity expansion thoughts that you have right now. That’s it for me.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So you know, while there have been discussions, we are looking at things related to capacity. But as far as next two years are concerned we are generally good for our growth aspirations. Our capacities are good. But there could be certain areas where we would like to kind of see if the growths are more. For example, we have seen better utilization for freeze dried. So if that is happening at a much faster rate, the utilization we could look at not necessarily a capacity expansion but maybe a strategic tie up or things like that.
But these are things we will be able to comment on when we come closer to a decision or date. Obviously there are discussions that keep happening on a regular basis but on a largely on a long term basis for the next two years we are good as far as capacity is concerned. As far as domestic business is concerned. As I told in the narrative that out of the 650 crores that we did in the India business, 440 crores or oddware, you know, the retail business, the branded business and we’ll continue to drive, you know, similar growths in the coming years also we are seeing very good traction in a lot of areas and it is important at this stage that we keep driving those growth traction.
So that will automatically, you know, come through. So we will keep up the momentum on the branded business as well. So
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Great, thanks and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhay from Carnelian Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello, can you hear me?
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah, we
Operator
Can hear you.
Unidentified Participant
Hi. So I just wanted your outlook on the D2C business segment. Firstly. Secondly is the export margin contraction, can that entirely be attributed to the coffee prices? And in general also what’s your outlook on coffee prices in the coming quarters?
Praveen Jaipuriar
So I’ll answer your second question first and then come to the first one. The second question. There actually is no margin contraction. So you know, the margin contraction that you see is basically because we are seeing as EBITDA as a percentage to top line and therefore it is only optical in nature as we have always maintained that our business works on, you know, per kilo Ebitda where there is no contraction but because the prices, coffee prices increase and we who are modeling as a cost plus model, therefore what it seems that the top line kind of, you know, in times of rising coffee prices looks, the growth looks more inflated.
So let’s say if we take the 46% growth top line, it is a combination of 18, 20% volume growth and another 20, 25% of coffee prices increases that gets built into the top line and therefore EBITDA as a top percentage top line looks, you know, contracted but it is not because what will happen, the opposite will happen. You know, probably going forward when in the base you have higher green coffee prices and going forward the green coffee prices could soften and therefore you may see in spite of 15% volume growth, you may see lower value growth.
But what we always say that how the basic metrics is to be looked upon is the volume growth, the EBITDA growth and are they growing in line with each other or not? And that’s the guidance also we are giving for the future that in line with the volume growth of 15% around about that number, we also look to drive EBITDA also in the same region. So that’s the answer to your second question. And therefore what it means is that the volatility in coffee prices does not affect our margins because the moment we do contract, we do back to back buying of green coffee which means that we are guarded against any fluctuations if at all it happens in the coffee prices.
So that’s the answer to the second question. The first question, as far as D2C is concerned, we are doing extremely well on D2C. Most of the platforms we are very strong with double digit market share and in a few of the platforms we are also the number two player in the, in the category. So we are doing extremely good. Approximately, you know, 25%, 20 to 25% of our sales come from the online channel which is very good, very good marker for the, for the business that we are doing.
Unidentified Participant
Another question was just the capex fund, but I think that’s been answered already. Thank you,
Praveen Jaipuriar
Thank you,
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Raj from Feeding amc. Please go ahead.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Yeah, hi, thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions. Firstly on inventory days, so now I was just looking, I mean because of the softening of coffee prices, the inventory days are almost for us are at historical lows. So do you see any further improvement in inventory days for the next two years assuming that the coffee prices stay at these levels or even move down further from here. And secondly, I think we are, because we don’t have any major CapEx for the next 2 years, our operating cash flow is actually going to be very strong.
So what is the management thinking about going forward for utilizing this fund, whether it will be increasing Dividend payouts or any acquisitions or any other thing.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So okay, so two things. First was about the inventory cycle. Of course. Yes, you are right. Lowering of coffee prices and the better visibility has helped us tighten the inventory cycles and it’s just not the inventory cycle. There are loads of other efficiencies that we have been able to bring in most of our operations. So that’s an ongoing process. Do we think that as a guidance we would like to lower it from the place that, that it is? I don’t think so. We’re giving in guidance to. Of lowering of inventory cycles from here on.
We would love to kind of maintain it better. It of course will do our best. But as a guidance I would not like to kind of give a guidance of lowering it further from here because we will take it as things come along. So that’s on this thing, of course. Yes, you have pointed it right. We will have, you know, cash flows coming. Now as far as how do we utilize it, there is no commitment as of now. But things that you spoke about, most of the things we are thinking about and we are thinking, yes, if there’s an opportunity in the areas of any good acquisition that comes our way, would definitely love to evaluate those and we’ll make sure that we are, we are using these, you know, flows to, to maximize the returns for the stakeholders in whatever way we can.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
So I mean and just whether it will also be used for reduction in debt from here on. I mean we are at it is actually. Yes, yes,
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yes. So yeah, of course Matlab, you know, it won’t come to zero but definitely there is a certain reduction that has already happened and significant reduction in that. We were not. If last year, if you would have heard us, our guidance was at around 1400, 1500 crores but we have reduced it 2080 I think possibly around about that number. Maybe there could be a certain more reduction but again all will depend on because even our growth numbers are there. We are at 15% volume growth is what we are, we are thinking so which means that you require 15% more working capital to fund this growth.
But you know how much of this gets offsetted by lower coffee prices and all that. So we will, we will take things as it comes along. But definitely the idea would be to, and you know the long term debts will anyways get, get paid. So there will be reduction in the long term debt. Working capital will take it up as things come along. But definitely all the efficiency measures are being put in place to improve the ratios and the parameters as Much as possible. And so maybe the CFO is saying that probably with a 15% growth, probably 1100, 1200 is the level that we probably could be seeing in the next year.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Understood. Just lastly on just on capex again. So I mean currently what is our capacity utilization on a console basis globally and assuming.
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah,
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
And I mean you said that will be good for next two years but for a new plant would it be Greenfield or brownfield? And I mean what time will it take for a new capex to come on board once we start executing it.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So first and foremost our annual utilization would be around 65% or soaps couple of percentage here or there. Last quarter was a little better at maybe 70%. So that’s why I said we are good for another two years. It does take you know, one and a half to two years to to materialize the capex. But you know the thing is that whether it will be Greenfield, Brownfield, we go into a strategic tie up. It will all depend on how things shape up. There could be a scenario that we don’t put our own capex but we end up doing some sort of, you know, capacity strategic tie up or we end up buying capacity, underwriting capacity of somebody else or we may ourselves think that we want to put Brownfield that also is on the on the cards.
But all of this it is little too premature to talk to. We’ll definitely keep you posted if there is any development on this front because a lot could change as we go along. Depends on you know, what kind of product the utilization is better. But at an aggregate level we are good for two years. But it could happen that maybe on our atypical type of product we could be seeing you know, better utilization than two years. So it will all depend how things go from here On a broad basis. Yes, we are good for two years.
What do we put next? We are all evaluating and watching the situation very closely. How growths are panning on which areas with geographies and accordingly we’ll take a decision going forward.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
I mean I was only asking from that point of view because you are hearing that Indian players are gaining significant market share globally. Plus our peers are also talking about strong volume growth. I was just trying to understand that whether of our volume growth what we are guiding if we achieve materially higher than that. So we should not be caught in a wrong foot in terms of having absolutely not having enough capacity.
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah, yeah. So that that is an assurance we are giving that we will not let capacity come in way of growth. So we will make sure that we, we do kind of, you know, get the capacity required to fulfill our.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from the line of Kashyap Zaveri from MK Investment managers. Please go ahead.
Kashyap Javeri
Thank you so much and congratulations team for great numbers. Just one question. I missed out on the number of capex for FY27. If that was discussed, if, if you can repeat that number.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So Kashyap, there’s no capex for 27. We didn’t say there would be any capex. As we have been maintaining next two years there’ll be some maintenance capex of maybe 25 to 30, 35 crores. But these are very small capexes. There is no planned, big capex planned as of now for the next two years. So. Yeah,
Kashyap Javeri
So just trying to reconcile, you know, sort of reconcile this number. I think what Chaitanya mentioned was that our debt next year closing could be roughly about 1100 crores.
Praveen Jaipuriar
Now
Kashyap Javeri
If let’s say our sales grew by about 15%, that’s additional 700 crores of sales at about 120 days. That would need just about 200 crores worth of cash. You add about 50 crores which will come from the maintenance capex. That should still leave a significant number in terms of, you know, free cash to repay the debt. So does that mean that we would retain cash on the book? Is that, is that assumption correct?
Praveen Jaipuriar
Not really. You know, so Chettine is a little bit conservative considering the volatility that has been there in the market. So you know, we would like to kind of err on the, on the right side than on the wrong side. Definitely as per your calculation there will be cash in the books. But as I said that, you know, there are multiple ways to figure out things right now while we are doing a lot of, you know, evaluation, not wanting to commit on any one aspect or the other.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Right.
Praveen Jaipuriar
But given a chance, obviously we would like to retire debt rather than keep it on the, on the books for long periods of time. So that, that goes without saying. Yeah, but you know, we don’t know. Yeah,
Kashyap Javeri
Understood. So if coffee prices remain where they are, this ceteris paribus, the calculation is in the right direction. There could be, you know, if there is any plus minus in either of these assumptions then obviously what that
Praveen Jaipuriar
Could be saying.
Kashyap Javeri
Yeah, thanks. Thank you so much and congratulations again for a great set of numbers. Yes,
Praveen Jaipuriar
Thank you. Thank you.
Kashyap Javeri
Yes,
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Garg from Nuvama wealth, please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, I would like to bring attention to a little bit about the business side of things. As we have seen the coffee market in India shift from spade dried coffee to freeze dried coffee and even two roasted blends. So what do you believe would be your plan to shift that demand in the company as well? And since we’re also talking about DTC demand that has grown to 20% this year. So what is your plans and brand visibility? As we again mentioned that free dried coffee and roasted blends are majorly focused.
The buying is focused on brand visibility. Like those brands have majorly acquired that share by creating the taste of coffee and focus towards immunization.
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah, okay, so I. There was a little bit of a disturbance in your voice, but why what I heard you. I’ll try and answer that and probably a couple of answers lie in your question as well. So the first thing is there a shift? Sorry, there’s a lot of.
Operator
Mr. Garfield, please mute your line sir. Mr. Garg please. Mutual line sir. You may proceed.
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah, so what I was telling is that you know it happens in any category that there will be premiumization. So there is not a shift from a spray dried to freeze dried. There is a large chunk of consumers who are still drinking spray dried and will continue to drink spray dried. But yes, as it happens in any category there is always a premiumization that happens. People are always upgrading to better coffee and that leads to some of these shifts where consumers are adopting freeze dried coffee. And that’s the reason we are pretty well equipped to cater to that demand.
And that’s the reason. And this in fact we had predicted a couple of years ago and that’s how we initiated capacity enhancement in freeze dried as well. So that is always there as far as the shift towards beans is concerned. If you see largely the consumption of beans is for out of home consumption and in growing market the outer form consumption is growing and therefore the usage of beans is growing at a much faster pace. We largely are not into beans because that is something that we very localized.
There is not much of value addition. So we don’t see that market as a very big market for us. But yes, in the Indian context we do supply to a lot of cafes and a lot of cafe chains, the beans, the roasted beans as well. So that is also something that we are seeing as growth drivers at least in the local Indian market. As far as your brand building activities question is concerned, yes, we are building the brand. We have developed certain strengths in certain categories and in some areas. So we are taking things forward.
It’s not necessary that all the categories we will be driving the growth, what we think that will give us the maximum impact are the categories that we are building. So like we started in south of India, we are strengthening our brand presence a lot there. And now we have started building traction in rest of south also. So we’re getting good track, you know, returns from markets like north and west, where our next growth momentum will come from. So all of that is part of our, you know, strategic initiatives going forward.
But yeah, there will be certain categories where we will not, you know, knowingly participate because we want to deploy the resources, you know, at the places where we think we’ll get the maximum impact. So I don’t know whether I have answered all your questions because there was some disturbance from your side, but this is our thought process.
Operator
Thank you sir for answering those questions. So the participant has left the queue. We will move on to the next question from the line of Vivek Ganguly from TCG amc. Please go ahead.
Vivek Ganguly
Thank you. Sir, I had one quick question. Your debt in the balance sheet has come off very significantly by a 700 outcross. But we do not see a corresponding reduction in the interest, the finance cost. Can you shed some light on that?
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Last year we had a lot of interest capitalized because our Vietnam facility was not at up and running last year. Right. So the interest was getting capitalized. So if we take that interest, there is a significant reduction in the interest as well.
Vivek Ganguly
Okay, and what would that number have been? And secondly, what was your cost of interest borrowing as we speak today?
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
So I may not be in a position to give you exact number that has got capitalized. That should be somewhere around 25 to 30 crores. Could be probably last year. What got capitalized? The cost of borrowing right now goes between 7.2 to 7 to 7.5 depending on where the borrowing happens.
Vivek Ganguly
Okay, got it right. That’s all from my side. Thank you.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhavya Sonawala from Samasa Capital. Please go ahead.
Deepak Saha
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Bhavya Sonawala
Yeah, I am Bhavya. You are Audi?
Deepak Saha
Yeah. First of all, congratulations sir on a good set of numbers. I think last few years have been very good. Just a couple of questions. First question is I think you guided 15% EBITDA growth and volume growth for the next full year. So is this with respect to contract still being short term or because it’s such a specific guidance, are the customers giving A long term guidance. So can you throw some light on that?
Praveen Jaipuriar
So yeah, so you know, a lot is changing now. We are. Sorry, there’s some, some noise that I can hear. I don’t know where it’s coming from. But yeah, so things are changing. As the coffee prices are stable, we are seeing a lot of long term contracts. In fact, some of our freeze drive capacity is quite long term now. So that is giving a very long term picture. So there is a movement towards long term contract and therefore we can be fairly assured of the guidance that we are giving.
Deepak Saha
Okay, understood. So just with respect to the guidance, again, I think this year we ended up at 30% growth in EBITDA and the next year we’re guiding 15. So is that considering some conservatism and you know, keeping in mind copy prices and other probably issues that might happen or anyway, is there some change? Because you know, we were getting 20 and then we obviously revised it upwards to 25 in this year. Right, right. So
Praveen Jaipuriar
There are, you know, a couple of things that you know, went our way this year and probably, you know, once it get gets into their base there may not be further improvement there. So for example, you know, this year our proportion of freeze dried was much higher. Right. So that, that proportion may not get even higher next year. So therefore that benefit we may not get. There are certain efficiencies that we had spoken about that may get build over a period of time and some of them, you know, got preponed a little bit because we were able to fasten some of these efficiencies so that get built, got built into the, into the base as well.
Some of these small packs we were able to, you know, fasten the proportions there. So you know, some of these things are already there in the base and therefore may not come as an additional thing going forward. So therefore, and we have always guided that our EBITDA growth will be in line of volume growth. So since we have guided a volume growth of 15% and we already have built the efficiencies into the basis and proportions into the basis, I don’t see this adding on to anything that we have already built.
And therefore we are giving a guidance that EBITDA also will grow in line with the volume growth which is around 15%.
Deepak Saha
Okay, got it. Just a last question if I may squeeze in on the branded business. What kind of growth do you think we’ll be able to garner in the next few years or at least the next year?
Praveen Jaipuriar
So you know, again, branded business also this year we got very Very handsome growth which was on the back of volume as well as value. So volume was around 25, 30% and then we added another 15, 20% of value growth this year probably because you know, post GST and post coffee prices softening, I don’t see that advantage of value coming in. But we are still committed to driving 25%, you know, kind of a volume growth which means that the value growth also will be in the same lines. So we are looking to drive that sort of a growth going forward as well.
Deepak Saha
Okay, got it. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Richa from Equity Master. Please go ahead.
Richa Agarwal
So thank you for the opportunity. My question is related to utilization at FDC capacity at Vietnam and you know, the capacity enhancement that you had done at India. So what is the annual utilization? What is the run rate currently?
Praveen Jaipuriar
So I’ll give you a broad picture. You know, we don’t kind of get into too much of details on capacity utilization. It works against us sometimes. But you know, at a broad level, annually we have, you know, with everything put together, new, old, everything put together, we had approximately 65% capacity cities utilization. And you know, I cannot kind of, you know, go into details of Vietnam, India, but freeze dried was a, was a little higher utilization as I told earlier. Also the proportion of freeze dried was better to freeze dried was higher than the average utilization.
But average utilization remained at 65%. Last quarter was a little better at around 70%. So that’s where it is.
Richa Agarwal
Okay. And so this year, you know, normally you guys saw that our volumes in EBITDA growing time, but this year our EBITDA growth absolute was more than, well about 30% while volume growth was what it was, 18 to 20. Right.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
So,
Richa Agarwal
So I mean I understand that there is a mix of FDC and small packs coming in here, but going forward there is there also a possibility that our EBITDA per kg could moderate given the product mix and the fact that when coffee prices soften, a lot of, you know, non premium customers or traders also come in to get that volume. So would that be a fair assumption?
Praveen Jaipuriar
I think you’ve asked a very precise question. Yes, there could be a possibility where it could soften. But as I have always maintained last time also we were saying that we will try and you know, kind of negate the pluses and minuses and keep it at the levels that they are in. Right. So although technically you are bang on when you say that there could be, you know, situation where my proportion of SGC could increase. And as you rightly said, if the coffee prices are down, a lot of low margin customers also come into the picture.
So that could lead. But as I have told that, we are continuously trying to build efficiency, small packs, you know, trying to go to end consumer customers. So all that will also help us and we are very confident that we’ll be able to, if at all there is any negative impact, negate through the some of these actions. So hopefully we will try and maintain the ebitda per kilo going forward.
Richa Agarwal
Okay. Okay, sure. And also, you know, from a two to three year perspective, what kind of guidance would you give for your, you know, domestic and domestic sales and branded business especially where could it be as a proportion of the total business and will that, will that end up becoming a better growth driver, let’s say three to five years from now as well.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So you know, again, there are two aspects to it. One is that yes, we are growing the business aggressively. What percentage to the total business will it become? I think that’s not the right way to look at it because the other part of the business also we are growing it aggressively. So that matrix becomes irrelevant. What is relevant that are we growing the B2C business much faster than the category? Are we gaining shares from our lead competitors or not? And are we making this business sizable enough for it to kind of, you know, give it back to the business?
And we are well online to this and not only in India. We are now looking to expand our B2C business in some of the other geographies as well. And hopefully we will keep building on this, on this vertical as fast as possible. Now going forward, let’s say now the India business has become quite, quite sizable. You know, at 400 odd crores, it is no longer a very small business. It is quite sizable when you look at, from a very absolute, on an absolute term basis. Now we are looking to kind of, you know, every three years we would love to kind of double this and say that okay, how, where do we go from there?
But, and you know, in the previous calls we were also saying that we are also trying to see if there are some other categories we can kind of grow our business into. So a lot of our growth momentum will be dependent on how some of these things shape up. But yeah, that’s the intent that I would like to tell you that we are driving things very aggressively, not only in India, but trying to see if we can scale up outside India as well. And in India can we get into some other categories as well. So all of them is being worked upon.
And yes, as a proportion we’ll try and keep increasing the proportion as much as possible.
Richa Agarwal
Yeah, so. So also we keep investing back in the business, you know, as we grow, at least for the next three to four years. Right?
Praveen Jaipuriar
Absolutely. Our intent is that, you know, we don’t want to make this business as of now. We’ll keep investing back into the business going forward.
Richa Agarwal
Okay. Okay. And so my last question is if you could just guide us on the tax rate. I’m sorry to
Operator
Interrupt you. I would request you to reach. Thank you so much. Will take the next question from Naim Patel from Bastion Research. Please go ahead.
Naim Patel
Yeah, hi. Thank you for this opportunity and congratulations on good set of numbers. So I would just like to follow up on the last question as a question that what the tax rate, what are we looking forward for? That is in next two to three years considering we have capacity set up in Vietnam. So that’s my first question. And secondly on the B2C side, you know we have international brands as well. So what sort of initiatives are we taking in on that account as well? So those are the two questions from my side.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
So regarding the first question, the average tax rate at a consolidated level is a combination of different, different multiple things in the sense that we have entities which are at full tax. Then we have an SEZ which operates at 50% tax. Then we have 115 BA entity. Then again we have an entity which is completely not taxable. So when we take an average tax rate at a consolidated level you may have a bit of deviation year on year. Having said that, the average tax rate should be somewhere closer to 17%
Naim Patel
International,
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
You know. Yeah, you’re talking about the international brand.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So yes, you know, per call now this year in UK alone is approximately anything between 25 to 30 crores. And there is a bit of India business as well. So we are looking to expand, not penetrate not only in the UK market with Percol, but we are now actively looking to take this brand in some of the other geographies as well. So we are talking to a lot of our partners across countries that how could we take this brand in some of the other countries now that we are seeing this getting established in the UK market?
Naim Patel
Understood. And just one last question on the cost of goods sold side. So is it terrorism this spike in this quarter on year on year this was largely due to the cost plus model nature of the business and there is no inventory loss or anything. Is that correct in the way to look at it?
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah, actually it’s not really about anything else because we work on cost plus. So the cost of goods sold higher could be dependent on the type of contract one is doing. So this quarter we did a little bit of not the proportion of lower margin contracts were higher. So the cost of good proportion is a little higher this quarter.
Naim Patel
That’s all from my side. Congratulations again for the numbers and best of luck. Thank you.
Praveen Jaipuriar
Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Deepak Saha from Ashika Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Deepak Saha
Hi. So first of all congratulations on great set of number. My question is on the B2C site. So it’s very heartening to know that on the quick commerce side, so we are doing 100 crore kind of a number of a full year. So what I wanted to understand since there would be many markets where would be, you know, mature in terms of compared to other micro markets that we have gone, what broad understanding currently we have that say we are giving 30, 35% discount and after considering commissions and all at MRP now are there levers to grow that particular number or improve our take rate on some of the mature markets and which can eventually impact our overall revenue and profitability.
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So you know Deepak, it’s actually directly linked to the equity that you are building. Brands with higher equity will command better pricing, lesser discounts. Right. Also discount is this thing of how the competition is this thing. So what has happened is that because of the aggressive growth that we have been seeing, there is also a very heightened level of competitive activity. So we have to keep maintaining pace so that we don’t lose ground that we have gained now. So having said so on a thumb rule basis, as the markets mature, as the brands get stronger in terms of its equity, your margin profiles keep improving because then you are able to command a better pricing.
Right. So your discounts could be lesser and things like that. So that pattern will continue and more and more strength that we get, the more and more, you know, pricing power also we will get.
Deepak Saha
Got it, sir. And so what’s the feedback on the Malguri brand that we launch for snacks in our vision to create multiple pillars in the consumer business. So what’s the response? Absolutely.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So the response is quite good there. We had done, as I told you, very small, you know, 100 store, 150 stores, kind of a pilot. There was a lot of response on various aspects. People have liked the product. There are certain variants where you know, we are doing some product tweaking as well because there was certain feedback and hopefully in a month or couple of months time you should be seeing a more, you know, broader launch at least with some of the product categories. So yes, we are going to scale that up pretty soon.
Deepak Saha
Got it Sir. So last two questions very quickly. We have 60% capacity, 65% capacity utilization, say and probably we are at the 50,000 kind of a number. I know you guided for 15% kind of a volume growth. But let’s assume if at all we get an opportunity, 20% then and next year, next two years, 20% kind of an opportunity that would be still under 72,000 ton, you know, kind of a volume at aggregate. So overall level, even if this kind of opportunity arises, that would not be constrained to our capacity utilization.
Right? We’ll be able to deliver that kind of a growth?
Praveen Jaipuriar
Absolutely. Absolutely. We’ll be able to deliver that kind of growth. We have that capacity and as I’ve told earlier also we are also, we are always on our toes. We are making sure that any growth opportunity is not lost because of any capacity even if it means that we have to do some strategic tie ups, buy capacity from outside. And you have seen four, five years, four years ago when we were, you know, we were at 100% utilization. We did take that step to buy capacity from outside and not let the growth, the growth rates come down.
So that goes without saying. We’ll not let the growth momentum suffer at all.
Deepak Saha
Got it. Last question sir, on the interest cost side to CFO sir, we have seen 130 crore interest against, you know, FY26. Now given our debt is gross level 12, 80, 90 crore. Right. So at least on interest cost side against 130 crore, probably 110 crore hundred and you know around that number would be easily. We can pull up and we can save 18, 20 crore around for the year.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
So we have a gross rate of probably around thousand to twelve hundred levels next year as well as indicated by CEO in the one of the questions. So if you take 1200 at an average rate of 7.5% it translates to close to 1995 crores. So somewhere around 100 crores would be an appropriate number is what I feel.
Deepak Saha
Got it. Very heartening to know. Thank you sir. And all the best for FY27. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanjay Satpati from Ampersand Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Congratulations on executing so well. So my question is that there is a huge difference and volatility in your subsidiary performance that you report. And this quarter, for instance, the subsidiaries made hardly any profit, which is why the consolidated and standalone there is not much of a difference in profit. And this keeps fluctuating a lot. Can you explain that? That is one. And the second thing is that it looks like there was a decisive shift in your revenue mix towards freeze dried coffee.
And that also you said that as a lower margin contract, was it some kind of entry strategy? Which is why it is normally better profit should be expected out of this frozen freeze dried, but it didn’t materialize and it will reverse going forward.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So you know, first and foremost, I think looking at subsidiaries and trying to add up at the consolidated level is not the right way because you know, the business is sort of centralized wherein, you know, the production planning will have this thing to say that where what gets produced, which customer gets service from which this thing, the business development teams at subsidiary levels could be, you know, doing a higher margin business in some quarter, lower margin business in some other quarter.
So all of these play a role and therefore, you know, the consolidated level is a better picture to see. And I won’t read much into, you know, subsidiary performance. And therefore you see sometimes the volatility in subsidiary performance. And the second part is the freeze dried thing that you are, you have asked. Yes, there was a higher proportion of freeze dried. And this also depends on how the markets are shaping up. There are times when the demand for freeze dried goes up. There are times when demand falls actually two, three years away.
If you look at long term patterns, when the coffee prices are high, you will see that there is a little bit of down trading and the coffee prices start to soften, the up trading happens. So all these factors play a role in deciding what would be the proportion. And we keep tracking some of these trends that are evolving and accordingly not only do our business, but also build our capacities. You know, so that’s, that’s how we, we kind of play on this. A lot of it is not driven by us, but it is dependent on the market forces.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. And what typically is it better to assume that the, the profit of freeze dried is generally going to be higher?
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah, yeah. Profit of freeze diet is always higher than spade. Right?
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. And there were some contract issue in this particular quarter.
Praveen Jaipuriar
Not contract issue, it’s more of a, you know, phasing issue. So there are quarters when you will do, you know, because it is all dependent on when which customer at what point of time wants their goods and all that. So quarterly there could be variations in these proportions, some Quarters you will see higher proportions of sprayed. Right. Some quarters lower proportion. So yeah, quarter wise these variations come and therefore we always maintain that it is best to see us on a slightly long term perspective because quarters could give you a little, you know, varied picture.
Unidentified Participant
Last question if you can see. I’m sorry to
Operator
Interrupt you sir. I would request you to kindly rejoin the queue for follow ups. Please. There are those who are waiting. Thank you. Will take the next question from Deepak from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Deepak Saha
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah.
Operator
Yes.
Deepak Saha
Yeah. Hi sir, so my first question is with respect to our export, so could you please highlight like out of our total exports, how much would be FOB based?
Praveen Jaipuriar
Most of it almost. If I take exports, 70% of our sales would be FOB based. Right.
Deepak Saha
Okay. And in the CIF based contracts, are we facing any backlash from our customer to pass on the increased, let’s say insurance or freight cost since you know, since this Middle east crisis has started and we do export to US and Europe as well. So any, any contract negotiation in terms of rate or are we able to fully pass on the logistics cost increase to them?
Praveen Jaipuriar
No. So you know if you have done the contract earlier on earlier terms and conditions, you will have to take on that. Right. So any increase or any this thing in cost in CIF contracts is not a backlash, it is actually a stress on us. So in fact we go back to them asking for increases but it may not happen all the time. So not all the costs can get passed through, especially in CIF funds. Yeah.
Deepak Saha
Okay. And sir, any deception are we seeing let’s say either in terms of any fuel availability or let’s say shipping routes towards this western exports or means how are we managing it? Or is it like as of now there is no such disruption that we have observed
Praveen Jaipuriar
A little bit of a supply decisions to the client that we were servicing in the Middle east for some time. But we haven’t seen any route disruption because it was only the state of Hormuz which was closed, which is only for mostly for oil, not for goods and all. And yes, there has been certain increases in the logistics cost, there has been certain increases in the energy cost. So that is their availability wise. We haven’t seen any challenge, but there are challenges in terms of cost pressures on certain accounts.
Deepak Saha
Okay, helpful sir, all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Samay Sabnis from Helios Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. So when you’re guiding for the volume growth of 15% next year. So then what is the blended utilization level that we target to achieve in FY27?
Praveen Jaipuriar
So when you’re saying blended utilize using utilization of the capacity.
Unidentified Participant
Yes.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So you know, we probably from here 15% on the basis that you can do a back calculation, we are looking at a 7 to 10,000 additional tons of, you know, sales. That could happen.
Unidentified Participant
So like you said, it’s 65, right? Yeah, 65
Praveen Jaipuriar
Will go to around 72, 73 to be very specific.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And then that becomes to what level in FY28, which is when you look for a couple
Praveen Jaipuriar
Seven, eight. So that will become to around 80, 82, 85 maybe.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Thank you. That was my one question.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yogan from Mittal Analytics. Please go ahead.
Bhavya Sonawala
Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of. So most of the questions have been answered. Just one follow up on your branded D2C business. So like it has been scaling really well. Last quarter you mentioned about an ebitda. Positive. It has turned. So going forward, what is your expectation? Can we expect the EBITDA to increase or would you like to still maintain it and pull back the money to grow the business further?
Praveen Jaipuriar
Yeah, so we’ll keep maintaining the same percentage levels, which means that a large portion of it will be pulled back. As I was mentioning that we are looking at new regions, new categories. So we’ll try to kind of develop that also. So it will be in an investment mode in the next three, four years.
Bhavya Sonawala
Got it. And sir, broadly, can you also quantify what was the proportion of smallpox in our overall business?
Praveen Jaipuriar
So largely it is around, you know, 20% or so it used to be. And I’m talking about broad this thing because on a very small quarterly basis becomes difficult to assess. But largely it is in that zone. If you remember 2, 3/4 or let’s say last year we were talking about a number around 15% or so. So it has increased and that has also helped us improve our profitability. And going forward we are also, and we have last time we had spoken that we are trying to see if we could, you know, go up the value chain as much as possible for a lot of more of our clients so that that endeavor will continue and we’ll try and see if we can improve upon this going forward.
Bhavya Sonawala
Fair enough, sir. And just last one, if I can squeeze in the new markets that you want to enter for your branded business by when can we expect that and what kind of scale should we think about those businesses?
Praveen Jaipuriar
So this one is a little tough to answer but you know, just to give you a little color that where what are we trying. So of course there is one which is the US market which we are actively evaluating that what are the ways and means to enter that market. Vietnam is one more market which we are evaluating that because we have our setup there. So it makes a lot of sense to see if we can build something there. Now what is the scale that we want to build? That’s a little tough to answer. But you know, if I were to say UK per call, let’s say if it’s already a 30 crore or 2530 crore kind of revenue, we probably are looking to kind of get to 100 crore within maybe 2 years or 3 years or so.
So that’s, that’s the kind of scaling up we are, we will try and do there. As far as the other markets like US and Vietnam, it’s a little premature to comment on the kind of scaling because let us see them first and see how what is the kind of traction we are getting. I’m sure there are certain markets where we’ll go wrong as well. So it’s not that everywhere or everything that we do will be, will be bang on. So a lot will evolve and closer to our evolution and our understanding that what is going right, what is not going right.
We probably will be able to give you a sense of scale. But whatever I can, I’ve given you a scale that how we are looking to build up some of these markets.
Bhavya Sonawala
Fair enough. So that’s really helpful, thank you. And all the very best to you and your team too.
Praveen Jaipuriar
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from the line of Kenneth Mendonza from TCG amc. Please go ahead.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Hi sir, I just wanted some color about for our B2C business about how the non south growth has been. And secondly while you have mentioned briefly about reinvesting profits generally,
Deepak Saha
What is the medium term profitability trend for the business
Praveen Jaipuriar
Of the B2C business?
Deepak Saha
Yes.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So okay. Yeah. So the, of course the non south business is growing at a faster pace now. Yes, the bases are still very, very small. But we are, you know, putting a lot more effort into these markets to make sure that we build a sizable base here as well as we speak. Our market shares have also seen positive movements in some of the key cities like Delhi, Bombay. So probably our efforts are also bearing fruits in these markets. So we are actively seeking to grow at a much higher clip in these markets than the south markets.
So that is there. As far as the profitability. I had already mentioned that we probably are at around 4,5% EBITDA levels. We’ll keep the EBITDA levels there so that all the additional profits are plowed back into building the brand and growing the business. So that’s, that will be my, our model. So next two, three years, I don’t think so we will look to milk it. So we’ll keep the EBITDA levels at the same percentage levels.
Chaithanya Agasthyaraju
Sure, sir. Thank you. And my last question is just given that you mentioned that we are seeing heightened costs due to freight insurance
Deepak Saha
And given that largely we are an export business, do we expect any sort of impact on margins despite the guidance you’ve given?
Praveen Jaipuriar
So of course last quarter there was a bit of an impact, little impact that, that we saw. But what I see as we speak, I’m seeing much more stability and hopefully we’ll keep our fingers crossed that things only improve from here. So we don’t see much of. Because you know, since 700% of our business is on cost plus and 70% is on FOB, a lot of our, you know, these kind of fluctuations are, we are, we are, we are insulated against. So therefore there won’t be much of an impact. But I’m hoping, and we all are, that the situation improves from here.
So we don’t see much of an impact on the guidance that we have given.
Operator
Thank you sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Praveen Jaipuriyar for closing comments. Thank you. And over to you.
Praveen Jaipuriar
So thank you everyone for joining the call. I appreciate Shikha Institutional securities for holding this call and we’ll all meet in the next quarter. Thank you everyone.
Operator
Thank you members of the management. On behalf of Ashika Institutional equities, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.