EPL Limited (NSE: EPL) Q3 2026 Earnings Call dated Feb. 13, 2026
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Mihail Shah — Analyst
Amrita Garwal — Analyst
Smith Gala — Analyst
Chirag — Analyst
Aditya — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Sa. Sam. Sa. Ram. Sa. Ladies and gentlemen, you are connected to EPL Limited Q3FY26 earnings conference call. Please stay connected. The call will begin shortly. I repeat, ladies and gentlemen, you are connected to EPL Limited Q3FY26 earnings conference call. Please stay connected. The call will begin shortly. Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen. Good day and welcome to the EPL Limited Q3FY26 earnings conference call hosted by Systematics Shares and Stocks Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star on your touchstone phone.
Please note that this conference has been recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Pratik Tolia of Systematic Shares and Stocks Limited. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. Thanks, Anushka. Good evening everyone. On behalf of Systematics Institutional Equities, I would like to welcome all the participants who logged into this conference call of EPL for a third quarter and nine month ending FY26 earnings call. From the management team, we have with us Mr. Heman Bakshi, MD, Global CEO, Mr. M I Ramasamy, COO, Mr. Deepak Goel, CFO, Mr. Thomas Tiffin, President Amita Region and Mr. Omkar Gangulde, Head Legal Company Secretary and Compliance Officer. At the outset, I would like to. Thank the management for giving us this. Opportunity to host this conference call. I would now like to welcome Mr. Hem Bakshi and and ask him to begin the proceedings of this call. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah. Good evening everyone and thank you for joining us for EPL Limited’s Quarter 3 FY26 earnings call. This is the first earnings call that I’m addressing as the CEO and I’m delighted to be here. Over the past three months, I’ve visited our plants in India, China, usa, Mexico, Poland, Germany and Thailand. This has given me an opportunity to spend meaningful time with our teams, interact with our key customers and engage with our partners. These interactions have given me deeper understanding of our operational strengths, the quality of our talent and the opportunities that lie ahead of us.
I’m truly excited with where we are as a business and even more so for what the future holds for us. I’m pleased to share that we have delivered another strong and consistent quarter. Revenue grew by 13.3%, EBITDA grew by 12% and EBITDA margin stood at 20.1%. ROCE improved to 18.7%, expanding by 184 basis points year on year. This is the third quarter of double digit growth, clearly showing that our strategy to accelerate beauty and cosmetic growth is working and is being executed with rigor and discipline across the organization. Our consolidated revenue growth of 13.3% was broad based with double digit growth in three of our four regions.
PAP and Americas delivered particularly strong performance growing 18 and 19% respectively supported by improved mix and customer momentum. A messa grew 10% while India standalone recorded a solid growth of 8.7% aided by continued traction in beauty and cosmetics segment, growth in Europe was lower than our expectation at 8%. The beauty and cosmetics segment continued to outperform, delivering 26% year in year growth in line with our strategic focus to grow faster in this category, all regions delivered nearly 20% growth, materially outperforming the market and highlighting accelerating market share gains. EBITDA margin stood at 20.1%, 20 basis points lower than last year but firmly within our target operating range.
Margins proved across all regions except Europe where performance was impacted by short term operational issues and adverse mix. We are confident of returning to targeted mid teen margins in the coming quarters. Profit after tax is flat versus last year due to the one off benefit in the base. Excluding this pat grew by 11% in line with EBITDA growth. The cash flow continues to be strong with net debt to EBITDA ratio at 0.65 while ROCE expanded by 184 basis points versus last year and stood at 18.7%. Sustainability and innovation remain central to our growth agenda. During the quarter Sustainable cube formats contributed 38% of sales reflecting sustained customer adoption.
We were recognized among the top 2% globally on CDP, Climate and Water A List 2025 and received the CII Sustainable Packaging Excellence Award underscoring our leadership in sustainability. In parallel, our focus on innovation was recognized through multiple awards at the IFCA Awards and Pure Beauty Awards Europe for our innovative tube solutions. Some of our most exciting innovations like tube and tube formats in China are getting to scale and command 8x premium over standard tubes. Now looking ahead, our priorities are clear to deliver sustainable profitable double digit growth guided by four priorities that will shape the next phase.
1. Accelerating momentum in beauty and cosmetics 1. Our deliberate strategic shift towards beauty and cosmetics is translating into sustained performance. We have now delivered four consecutive quarters of over 20% growth in this segment with non oral accounting for 53% of our total portfolio. With continued investments in innovation, extruded solutions, front end specialization and new technologies, we see strong headroom to see sustain and scale this momentum. Number two Scaling in high growth emerging markets. Emerging markets continue to be an important growth driver. Brazil has been a consistent outperformer, Thailand is gaining traction and we remain focused on building scale and capabilities in these markets to drive long term growth while also exploring other markets which remain a white space for us.
Number three Sustainability as a growth enabler. Sustainability is increasingly influencing customer choice and our capabilities are well aligned with this shift. With 38% of our sales coming from sustainable tube formats and recognition through EcoVaddis Platinum, we are well positioned to deepen relationships with global customers and win incremental share. Number 4 Margin expansion and capital efficiency. Margin discipline remains a core focus. We have delivered six consecutive quarters of 20% plus EBITDA margins and we expect gradual improvement through scale benefits, Europe margin initiatives and targeted operational initiatives. At the same time, our focus on capital efficiencies yielding results with roce improving to 18.7% and we remain confident in our journey to consistently improve roce.
To sum up, this quarter demonstrates our ability to execute with discipline in a dynamic environment. We are growing profitably, strengthening returns and building a resilient future ready business. I would like to thank our teams for their disciplined execution, our customers for their continued trust and our shareholders for their confidence in epl and I must end by saying the best is yet to come. With that we are now happy to take your questions.
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press STAR and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press STAR and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment. When the question queue assembles we take the first question from the line of Mihail Shah from Nomura. Please proceed.
Mihail Shah — Analyst
Hi team, congrats on a great set of numbers. Thank you for taking my question. Firstly just wanted to check what drove the strong AMISA growth especially in bnc. Was it any new subcategory that you know you have got share from or a new clientele? Or was there any element of restocking post the GST changes that happened there. Also an update on oral care in India, you know which is continuing to see headwinds as we saw in the, you know, market leaders results. Can you break up the growth of B and C and oral care for us in India? That’s my first question.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, I think firstly India continues to be a very attractive market for us with category growth. We have Always maintained that India will come back to growth as soon as the impact of the earlier quarters which were due to one off like gst. This quarter is definitely a step in the right direction. We are seeing momentum in BNC category and Oral is gradually coming back. We are confident of continuing and improving this growth trend even further, focusing more on bnc. I think what we are doing is expanding our customer base, reaching more and more customers.
Most of them are coming to us because of the high quality products we offer and we definitely see that there is three significant Runway for further growth.
Mihail Shah — Analyst
Got it. I have a further one on India but I’ll probably come back for India. Moving on to China, despite the unit closure, the sales saw an increase. Firstly, what was the reason for the unit closure at X of Thailand? What was the growth for EAP next quarter? Also you know there can be an impact on because of Chinese New Year. So X of that can one expect this strong growth to sustain at these levels? Like we saw, you know when you had entered Brazil and we saw the growth in Americas took off from there.
So similar trajectory can we expect for EAP from year on with Thailand getting added?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah. So Bhir, firstly let me address the question on the factory closure. The China factory closure was driven by customer filling facility movement closer to another EPL plant. Accordingly, we moved our equipment from one facility to another existing facility we had. However, it did mean that we had to pay severance cost here and that has been shown in our results as well. So this was purely because of a customer initiated action as far as EAP is concerned. On an overall basis we commercialized our Thailand plant in this quarter itself. Quarter three and therefore Thailand is a very exciting market.
In fact Southeast Asia is a very exciting market, very high consumption level and we are very confident and excited about the results we will get in Thailand. But to be fair, in this quarter it’s been scaling up and therefore the results which you see here are driven entirely by our incredibly good performance in China. And you can see from our results we are building significant momentum in BNC in China and gaining share and we see this momentum continuing.
Mihail Shah — Analyst
Got it. And if I can put in one last question, you highlighted that the best is yet to come. If you can just touch a little bit deeper on what do you entail by this? Because two things. One is that if you see the Americas growth of strong double digit growth, it will start cycling a higher base from next year onwards from FY24 so growth there can normalize. Secondly, the margins have come back to 20 plus percent. So room for further improvement can be lower from here. So when you say best is yet to come, can you elaborate a little more on that? That’s all from my side and thank you very much.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
I think Meher, I’m really confident and very excited about the pivot we’ve made strategically towards bnc. If you look at BNC and compare it with oral B, BNC market size is twice that of oral. It’s growing at twice the rate of oral. And in addition to that, our market shares in BNC are relatively lower. So if and if we were to double our market share, which is very well within our reach in the next few years, we have Runway for growth which is higher than what we’ve seen so far. So I feel BNC and the move towards BNC makes for a really exciting future for eps.
Mihail Shah — Analyst
Got it. Thank you. That’s all from my side.
operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Sameer Gupta from India Info line. Please proceed.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, good evening sir and first of all congratulations on a good set of numbers and thanks for taking my question. First question is on Europe. So revenue growth has kind of come back. It’s not still at a level which is you mentioned is not still below expectations but it’s still a decent number and margins still have witnessed a sharp contraction. Overall this has been a troubled geography, volatile performance. So you’ve had some interventions but we are yet to see those results. So just wanted your sense as to what is happening in this geography. I know you mentioned in the presentation but a little more details here.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, no Sachin, really good to hear from you and I think your question is valid. So firstly when 8% is good growth but our expectation in this quarter was for even higher growth and Therefore our plans etc. Were constructed on that basis. And that’s why we are saying it’s below our expertise expectation having.
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, it seems like the line for the management has been disconnected. Please stay connected till I rejoin the management. Sa. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for waiting patiently. The line for the management has been connected so you may proceed.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, sorry for the interruption. So as I was mentioning, our growth was below our expectation. Although to be fair, in Europe kind of environment, 8% is good growth. But our challenges were adverse customer mix. In addition to that we were impacted by short term operational challenges which are in the nature of higher write off, higher outsourcing and some production issues as well. Also quarter three tends to be a slower quarter in Europe because of Christmas and hence the lower margin last Year of course was helped by one time gains which we had in the business.
Having said that, the more important thing is we’ve identified key initiatives which will address these issues and will improve margins. We should start seeing the benefits of these in the coming quarters and we are confident that going forward Europe will operate at mid teen margin.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, if you could elaborate, those initiatives would be helpful.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah. So these are operational initiatives in terms of the actions we are taking. And as we consolidate some of our operations which were planned, we will be taking very significant actions to reduce some of the costs which we’ve seen emerge as a result of these operational issues.
Unidentified Participant
Got it sir. Thanks for this. Second question is on Amesa taking it forward from Meer. So the growth here has rebounded but after four consecutive quarters. Is there an element of negative pricing which has got anniversaries now or do you see a pickup in oral care? Because we are yet to see any meaningful uplift in the market leader’s performance. So just wondering how sustainable this growth number is, if you could address that.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, I don’t think there is any pricing advantage in these numbers. Having said that, I think the key issue is we are seeing early recovery signs in oral care. Obviously you will see it will take some time for it to fully recover but definitely this quarter has been better and we feel that momentum will start turning and become positive.
Unidentified Participant
Got it sir. That’s, that’s all for me. I’ll come back in the queue for any follow ups.
operator
Thank you. Question from the line of Amrita Garwal from Leeway Investments. Please proceed.
Amrita Garwal — Analyst
Hello, good afternoon. Can you benefit the raw material expenses between polymer and aluminum and if the polymer prices go up in next one year, how does it going to affect our margins?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Sorry, can you repeat please?
Amrita Garwal — Analyst
Can you bifurcate the raw expansion between polymer and aluminium prices, medium raw material and how do you see our margins shaping up in next one year if the polymer prices go up in next one year?
Unidentified Speaker
Want to answer that Deepak? So Amit, our effort has been to make our margins delinked from the commodity prices and we have done. We have taken multiple initiatives to achieve that objective. We review our customer margins, gross margins on a monthly basis. We are mostly on a pass through basis and hence 50% of our businesses on pass through basis balance. 50% is negotiated when the prices go up. Today our ability to have those discussions with our customers as soon as we start seeing the upward movement in prices is much higher because of the internal processes that we have set setup and hence our expectation is as the prices go up, our margins should not get impacted.
Amrita Garwal — Analyst
Can you bifurcate the raw material expenses between the two raw materials?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
We can’t understand your question fully.
Amrita Garwal — Analyst
Can you bifurcate the raw material expenses in percentage terms between aluminum and polymer?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Polymer is a significantly higher part of our raw material cost. Aluminum is much smaller also because now we are more and more moving towards plastic based laminate. Right. And hence anence polymer remains our largest raw material Though I obviously wouldn’t be able to give you an exact percentage of both the raw materials.
Amrita Garwal — Analyst
And any particular reason that net debt has increased in last 1/4 of 1 year.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
This is just phasing. So in this quarter we do a dividend payout and we have some accelerated capex spending. This is the timing impact and should get corrected on a full year basis.
Amrita Garwal — Analyst
My last question regarding Thailand how much of the capacity has been utilized till now and what is the assumption Index 1 year how much capacity you are going to use Index 1 year in Thailand?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
I think to be fair, Thailand is just starting. We commercialized the plant in November of this quarter which you are. You know the results we are talking about. It’s really early days in Thailand. It’s a very attractive market as we spoke about earlier and I think we should give it some time as it scales up and I’m sure we’ll have a deeper conversation on Thailand as time goes by.
Amrita Garwal — Analyst
Okay, thank you, Best of luck.
operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of me Jane from Motila Loswal please proceed.
Unidentified Participant
Hello sir, I have one question on Europe so as we’ve seen and also guided that there are some operation issues happening in that. So in terms of demand front, how are we seeing the demand as we understand that for the B2C BNC market, the largest market. So any new product launches that we are planning or how is the traction in terms of demand that we are seeing there? Also if you can throw some light on the current mix of your beauty and cosmetic and oral care in the market.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah so I think we are very excited by the performance we are seeing in beauty and cosmetics. We’ve had multiple quarters of 20% plus growth and even in this quarter each of our regions are close to 20% or ahead of 20% growth. So I think we are seeing a lot of positive momentum in this space and as I was mentioning earlier, this is a very attractive market, large, fast growing, where our capabilities become very relevant. Some of our very interesting innovations which are coming out of different parts of the world including China are getting to traction.
I Spoke about tubing tube which we’ve talked about earlier. But also other applicators which we are using are seeming getting a lot of customers positive response. So overall we feel very positive and confident of BNC and the demand in that space.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. And also one bookkeeping question in terms of debt itself. So currently we are doing an interest cost indented of around 28 crores. So what is like can you throw some light on the guidance with our outlook? Will it come down on how you are seeing traction going into this part?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah. So we will continue with our gradual reduction of debt and interest cost will show the consequential benefit. However we do not. However we prioritize growth and growth is the biggest priority for the company and hence we’ll keep investing in our growth priorities as well.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. And lastly on the current momentum, like we are in the middle of the last quarter, last quarter. So how is the performance in the geographies right now?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Our long term guidance remains unchanged which is double digit revenue growth. We’ve delivered it now consistently for the last few quarters and we are confident that we will continue to deliver to our strategy.
operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Abhishek Maheshwari from Sky Ridge Fund Managers llp. Please proceed.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, thank you for taking my question. Just few things. So you mentioned about the factory closure in China. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that? Because you said the customer moved so we had to move our machines also. But does other plants have enough space to accommodate those machines? I mean, can you elaborate a little on that?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, Abhishek actually the move has been executed already. So we do have space in the other facility which we have. This is a customer initiated change and we’ve had to close because our customer billing facility moved closer to another plant we already had. So we just moved our machines there. We have enough space. The only impact has been on some of our employees where we’ve had to pay severance cost. But this is a, you know, action which has already been executed.
Unidentified Participant
All right, got it. So no capacity cuts in the sense this machine is operating elsewhere. Okay. The next question is regarding Europe. I think last few last quarter con call you had mentioned that the Europe was slightly slow because a big customer was destocking and it seems that the slowness has persisted this quarter also. So what are we seeing from that customer again? The big customer? Have the inventory buildup started again or are we still seeing some slowdown there?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
There is recovery and as you can see in the results on Growth also you can see between the two quarters there’s been an improvement. As I mentioned earlier, our expectation was of even higher growth. We are beginning to see some turnaround in the country customer which we spoke about. But there’s some way to go still and we need to watch the situation carefully.
Unidentified Participant
Got it, Got it. Thank you so much sir. All the best.
operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Smith Kala from RSPN Ventures. Please proceed.
Smith Gala — Analyst
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on good setup numbers. My first question is by when can we expect some clarity on Thailand ramp up because the depreciation has grown 3% sequentially from 94 crores to 97 crores. So do we expect any more increase in the near future or. This is a steady state, at least for the next two or three quarters.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, I think we can get back to you on Thailand as a little time passes by. As I told you, we just commercialized our plant in November. These are early days. It’s a very, very promising market. And on investments, Deepak and add more to it.
Unidentified Speaker
So our investment philosophy continues where we invest in line with depreciation and the depreciation cost obviously because of phasing and the fallout of existing assets can move up or down. But essentially as a strategy it will always remain lower than revenue growth. And that’s what you see in the YTD numbers as well. Our depreciation growth is lower than the revenue growth and that’s what we’ll continue following.
Smith Gala — Analyst
Okay, so next question is in the future, after as and when Thailand ramps up, do we expect our revenue growth from double digit to mid teens kind of thing. And secondly, can we expect some operating leverage or in future now the revenue growth will mirror EBITDA growth going forward.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
So our guidance remains unchanged which is that we will deliver sustained double digit growth on revenue and our margins will be. Our EBITDA growth will be slightly ahead of that. So that’s our guidance and that remains unchanged.
Smith Gala — Analyst
Okay, thank you. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before we proceed with the next question, a reminder to the participants. In order to ask a question, you may press star in one on your touchstone telephone. We take the next question from the line of Yogesh Mittal, an individual investor. Please proceed.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Am I audible?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks for giving me the opportunity. Sir, I have a question to ask about the operational aspect of the company. Please pardon my ignorance. Wanted to understand that when we, when we make the empty tubes they are shipped to the client’s place and the filling and packing of that is done at client’s place, including the labeling and the printing or that is done at our facility.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
We sell empty printed tubes to our customers and they do the filling at their own locations. That’s normally the. That’s the normal conventional model which is followed.
Unidentified Participant
Right, sir. So I have one more thing to ask on this. So. So coming to that point of the. When we were shifting the facility in China to near to the client’s place. So understanding this part, then what was the reason to shift to the client’s place? So. So do I understand that we have some more coordination to do with the clients manufacturing where they have the contents to fill in that. Do we have a close coordination to do with them?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
No, I think I should clarify that our customer in this case, they decided to change their own filling unit. So they were producing in one place where we were producing very close to them. They shut down their factory there and moved to another location. And therefore we had to follow them. So this was initiated by the customer and it was a customer decision. And what we can tell you is that there is extremely high coordination between us and our customers customers so that we can do a lot of these things in synchronization.
Unidentified Participant
Right, sir. And one thing more please, if I may ask. So the final means the batch number, etc, those kind of printing might be done at the client’s place. So basically other than that, all the pro means, all the product labeling is done on your product, on your empty tube and we ship to the clients.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
That’s correct.
Unidentified Participant
Is that understanding right?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, that your understanding is right.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you so much for helping me. Out on this one issue. All the best.
Unidentified Speaker
Thanks.
operator
Thank you. Before we proceed with the next question, a reminder to the participants. In order to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchstone telephone. We take the next question from the line of Chirag from Keynote capitals. Please proceed.
Chirag — Analyst
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is to understand what kind of operating margin difference there is on non oral care and oral care products. As we are seeing the move and growth in beauty cosmetics to be in the high double digits, more than 20% tension. The margin is expected to take a shift accordingly. So just wanted to understand what kind of margin difference is there.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
So our ASP in beauty and cosmetics, which is the larger part of non oral care business is significantly higher than the oral care business. As a function of that, the per tube margin that we make in non oral care or beauty and cosmetics is significantly higher than the oral care. However, as a percentage of Margin they are roughly similar. But because the ASP is higher, the fixed cost absorption happens better and hence beauty and cosmetics or our movement to non oral care is margin EBITDA advantageous as a overall.
Chirag — Analyst
So it would be fair to assume that it is better for us to look at on unit economics rather than margins because higher asp, slightly higher cost. But because of operating leverage, your margins are slightly higher as it is balanced off. Correct.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
I would say that we look at our business on a revenue basis because that becomes the equalizer. Beauty and cosmetics deliver better economics on an overall P and L basis.
Chirag — Analyst
Okay. The second thing I wanted to understand, like in the personal care category there has to be. There have been multiple subcategories that we have been catering since last two and a half years. I’m able to see that there is no new category being added into it. So is it fair to assume that the width of the product that we wanted to manufacture, we have catered to them Moving forward, this would be the product basket we would be catering to.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
I think personal care and beauty and cosmetics has multiple categories subcategories within it. You can go from conditioners to shampoo to face wash, face care and then you can go into mascara eye. So there are multiple categories in beauty and cosmetics and personal care. We are able to operate in all of them. So we have capabilities and we have skills to be in all of these spaces. And that is something which we have been executing for some time. So it isn’t like there is any area in which we can’t be present or are not present.
Chirag — Analyst
Perfect. Perfect. So one more thing. Since the time Sudanshu Ji used to run this company in 2020, we used to provide a bifurcation between regional wide bifurcation between oral care and non oral care which I am not able to see in the last three to four years time stand. So it’s just a request. Will it be possible for you to again show those numbers? Because we are able to see that the growth is completely driven currently by the initiatives that we have taken. So it would be fair for us to understand this regional wise too.
Unidentified Speaker
Our understanding is this is the information we’ve been disclosing for a very long period of time and that is what we will continue to do. In the meanwhile, we will check what’s there in the past. Anything you want to add?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
No, that’s fair. I think our business, we deliver or we provide the category level information at a global level. The regional numbers at a quarterly level could be very volatile and hence may not be Productive to discuss. However, at an overall level we provide enough guidance to show the category momentum. That’s what we should continue with and we will, as Himan said, we will. Look at what we were doing earlier.
Chirag — Analyst
Okay, no issue. Sir, one more thing. Will it be possible for you to give the capacity size in metric tons after the silent capex got completed?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Our capacity does not work in the metric tons manner. The laminates are actually in square meters. However, the kind of tubes that we make are very very different from each other Depending upon the size of dia, the printing etc. And hence it will not make sense to provide a capacity in the in that metric.
Chirag — Analyst
No issues. That is it. From my side, sir. Thank you.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Okay.
operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Aditya from Securities Investment Management. Please proceed.
Aditya — Analyst
Hi sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Just wanted to get a better sense of the scale up in Thailand. So when we had expanded in Brazil we had an anchor customer with us which helped us in scaling up that geography faster. So is it a similar case in Thailand as well or do you think the scale up will be much more gradual here?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Our model in Thailand of entry is different. This is a much more organic entry model. We worked in Thailand now for more than a year with our actual sales team on the ground which has been building a pipeline of business for us. And we have a really strong and healthy pipeline and we’ll execute against that over a period of time. Because you know, Thailand’s been operational in this quarter for less than four weeks. So it’s a bit premature to start talking about what’s the performance and so on. You will see that come through in the next few quarters.
But our model of entry has definitely been different and it’s a very different interesting new model which will open up many more markets for us. So yes, what we’ve done in Thailand is different.
operator
Hello, Mr. Aditya, are you on the line?
Aditya — Analyst
Yes. Am I audible?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
You’re audible.
Aditya — Analyst
Yeah. So just a follow up. So is Thailand a completely new geography for us or. We were supplying to the geography on other manufacturing plants.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah. So there was some export happening from China into Thailand. So we did have, you know, connection with the market and tubes used to come from China. But obviously in this business on ground presence and you know having a manufacturer manufacturing base makes a huge difference. So it is indeed a new opportunity.
Aditya — Analyst
And secondly sir, if I look at your target for ROC expansion from 18 to 25%. So just wanted to get a better sense. So is it that the margins would have to do the Heavy lifting for us to improve our ROCs or there is more capital efficiency which we can bring in in the business. So which of these two who would be the growth driver for us for ROC expansion?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
So our ROC this year has gone up, it’s at 18.7%, it’s gone up by 200 basis points. And we will continue to target to improve our ROCE year on year as we go forward, but we do not want to provide any year level guidance on it. Having said that, there are multiple levers which can be deployed to improve roce and we will do all of them and we will always, as I think we mentioned earlier, prioritize growth over all other metrics.
Aditya — Analyst
But structurally, if I have to understand so beauty and cosmetics would give us better margins. Our Platina segment has also, I believe, better margins. So going forward, do you think structurally this business can operate at 20 to 23% margins?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
So firstly I should clarify and I think Deepak, they mentioned it earlier, our BNC and oral care margins as a percentage are the same. So it’s not that BNC has higher margins on a percentage basis, of course, because the selling price is much higher. The total cash you make or the amount, amount of money you make might be higher in BNC per unit, etc. Having said that, our intention is to grow EBITDA slightly ahead of revenue, but we will continue to prioritize growth over other metrics.
Aditya — Analyst
Understood, sir. Okay, and so just last question now if I look at our target for double digit revenue growth, one of the things we have mentioned is we might look for MMA opportunities. So just if you could help us understand in I believe we have good amount of market share in oral care beauty. Also we are growing and we are manufacturing facilities in many of the major geographies. So just wanted to get a better sense. So are we looking at opportunities in the beauty and cosmetics or something new kind of a packaging? Just if you could provide some flavor.
Where are we looking?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
So I think firstly we must say that we continue to actively pursue M and A opportunities. When we look at M and A, we use two criteria to look at targets. One is anything which takes us to a new geography or indeed helps us build new capabilities, capabilities we don’t have. So we see incremental capabilities or presence in geographies from an M and A point of view. And of course we have other criteria for value creation on it being margin and growth accretive. Keeping all of this in mind, we are actively considering M and A, but we don’t have Anything concrete to come back and discuss with you at this stage.
Aditya — Analyst
Thanks for answering my questions.
operator
Thank you. Before we proceed with the next question, a reminder to the participants. In order to ask a question, you may press Star in one on your touchstone telephone. We take the next question from the line of Chirag from Keynote Capitals. Please proceed.
Unidentified Participant
Yes, thank you for the follow up. So, just wanted to understand what kind of initiative that we are taking which is helping us to grow more than 20% is in beauty and cosmetics. If you can highlight one of this.
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, I think beauty and cosmetics, as we’ve been speaking through this discussion is extremely important for us. And the initiatives we’ve taken are showing very good results. I think what we have done is firstly to build front end and back end capabilities. The PNC business is distinct from Oral care. We have many more customers in beauty and cosmetics. Oral tends to be dominated by a few customers. BNC has many more customers and therefore our sales effort has to be one of acquiring and retaining customers on an ongoing basis. So we’ve invested in front end capabilities.
We’ve also built a center of excellence in Mumbai which is managing our innovation, pulling it all together globally and also building capabilities on proofing, sampling and so on. And we are also at the same time investing in extruded capacities. So overall there’s many things we need to do. Many new capabilities have to be built and we are investing in doing so. We’ve been doing it for the last few quarters. As you can see, the investments are are bearing fruit, but the investments will continue in the future as well.
Unidentified Participant
And so just from the perspective you already answered it, I know that the spark on costume capabilities we have enhanced. Just wanted to have a view that the improvements related to this was taken place in the last cycle where polymer prices shot up in 2022 was at the time the new receptors related to cast on cost has taken place which is giving us the confidence that down the line it would be much more easier to maintain the kind of margin that we have.
Unidentified Speaker
Chirag, we went through a cycle where our margins kind of dipped after the RM increases. When we went through the.
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, it seems like the lines of the management has been disconnected. Please stay connected till I rejoin the management. Thank you for waiting patiently. The line for the management has been connected. You can proceed, sir.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Chira. So last time when we saw margin contraction, we as an organization went through every process in interest by what went wrong and how can we prevent it from happening again. One thing that came out was that the pricing Discussions that we were doing with the customers were not timely and hence we were out of pocket on many of these. We have significantly strengthened our capabilities to first review our margins at a customer level and then also how can we have those discussions with our customers a lot more proactively that we have demonstrated in certain pockets, in certain, certain products, certain regions, and hence feel confident that in case there is a cycle turn that happens on commodities, we are well.
Equipped to protect ourselves.
Unidentified Participant
Hello?
Unidentified Speaker
Does that answer your question?
Unidentified Participant
Chiak, I’m so sorry for my language. Your voice was a little muffled. If you could just repeat the last part again.
Unidentified Speaker
I’m saying that we have learned from the last episode that happened and we have built in capabilities to review our margins and have proactive discussions with our customers to make sure that our margins don’t impact it in case the commodity cycle turns and that we are building as a core capability the organization.
Unidentified Participant
Happy to hear that, sir. And so this last thing, from a longer term view, like five years point of view, are we expecting the internal targets to be around double digit kind of a growth in top line?
Unidentified Speaker
Absolutely, without doubt. Our guidance continues to be sustained double digit growth, revenue growth in the future.
Unidentified Participant
So it would be fair to assume that we would be growing our beauty and cosmetics this into high teens. High teens kind of a.
Unidentified Speaker
That’s correct. That’s the model that the beauty and cosmetics there is a significant headroom. We’ll grow it in high teens and then oral and pharma will continue to grow on a steady pace.
Unidentified Participant
That is it. From my. Thank you so much, sir.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to the participants, in order to ask a question, you may press Star in one on your touchstone telephone. A reminder to the participants in order to ask a question, please press Star in one now. As there are no further questions from the participants, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Pratik Tholia for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. Thanks Anushtab. On behalf of Systematics Institutional Cookies, I would like to once again thank all the participants who joined this call. I would like to also thank the management for giving us this opportunity. Thank you so much, sir. And thanks for answering all the questions in so much detail. So would you like to make any closing comments? Heman?
Hemant Bakshi — Chief Executive Officer
Sir, no, thank you very much. Really welcome the engagement of everyone and we look to forward forward to speaking to you again in the future. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. On behalf of Systematics Shares and Stock Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now Disconnect your lines. Sa.