Computer Age Management Services Ltd (NSE: CAMS) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 06, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Auj Kumar — MD and CEO
Ram Charan Sesharaman — CFO
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Masoom Rateria — Analyst
Swarnabh Mukerji — Analyst
Devesh Agarwal — Analyst
Supratim Dutta — Analyst
Prayesh Jain — Analyst
Sarthak Nortyal — Analyst
Madhukar Ladha — Analyst
Uday Pai — Analyst
Sanket Godha — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4FY25 earnings conference call of Computer Age Management Services Limited hosted by MUFG Investor Relations today. From the management of the company we have Mr. Anushkumar, MD and CEO Mr. Ramcharan Sr. SFO Mr. Anish Savlani, head Investor Relations. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touch tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Ms. Masoom from MUFG. Thank you. And over to you Ms. Masu.
Masoom Rateria — Analyst
Thank you. Good morning and welcome to Q4FY25 earnings conference call for Computer Age Management Services Ltd. Before we proceed to the call, I would like to give a small. Disclaimer that this conference may contain certain forward looking statements about the company which are based on beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date. The statements are not guarantees of future. Performance and involve risk and uncertainties which. Are difficult to predict. A detailed disclaimer has been published in the investor presentation. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Auj Kumar — MD and CEO
Hi, good morning everyone. Thank you Masoom for the introduction in the safe harbor. Thanks everyone for joining this Q4 earnings call of CAMS like we’ve done in the past. I’ll take you through a quick, you know, summary of facts which are all encapsulated in the presentation. We estimate each one of you will have a copy and then Ramsaroo will come over the financials. I estimate we will still have about 35 minutes to go through your Q and A. If not, if not longer. In terms of the quarter, I’ll just cover the year first, start with the full year FY25.
So in terms of the entire year our revenue was up. It’s a handsome increase for the year at 25%. All parts of the machinery fired and fired very well, both MF and non mf. Inside of non MF again, several parts of the of the business fired quite well bringing us to those growth rates. So like you can see, MF revenue grew by about 25% plus non MF was just short of 25%. But sustained growth in non MF I think has, you know, vindicated the faith of the marketplace and what we are building in that portfolio.
And again we are very hopeful and confident that we will have a Repeat here in FY26 in delivering at least high double digit 24, 25% growth in non MF to continue this year too. For the year, share of non MF revenue was at 13%. Given the backdrop of all of this, given the backdrop of 25% revenue increase, we had a growth in absolute ebitda of almost 30%. 29.7% EBITDA percentage stood at a handsome 46%. And I’m sure you’ve been witness to our performance for the last six, seven quarters and you’ve been seeing those, you know, middle 40s, mid-40s EBITDA performance for some time peaked at about 47.
But very happy to tell you that for the year it stood at 46. Absolute pat grew 33%. Absolute pat margins was just short of 32. I must remind all of you that in the markets, and you know that almost 90% of this business is linked to what happens in the capital markets, especially the segments of mf, KRA alternatives and to an extent, small extent, payments, all the growth has been achieved despite the fact that from September up to March, what we saw was almost a sustained pressure on the indices which started easing, let’s say in the months of April and May.
But for September to March there was sustained pressure. At the peak, large cap indices had scaled back almost 14, 15%. New demart and broking accounts were not opening. There was some moderation, I would not say pressure, but some moderation in terms of how SIPs were being triggered. So despite all of that, you’re seeing the results that are in front of you. I’ll move forward when I show you the same thing. For the quarter. I think it’s important to just understand what happened in the quarter. From a quarter’s perspective. We were staring at a backdrop of 3Q or third quarter, which was almost 370 crores in revenue, 173 crore in profits.
From an operating part, we did not lose much. From an operating part, we lost about three to four crore rupees in revenue. Against that backdrop of 370, what moderated the revenue was largely the price adjustment that we had referred to in the last earnings call. You will recollect that we have said that the given the fact that most of our large contracts are now heading to be fully digital, any pricing asymmetry had to be taken out, which we were doing for some time. And I think that’s one impact that you’re seeing in the fourth quarter.
So from an operating perspective, we lost about 1%, 1.5% revenue. The balance between 2 and 3% was lost because of the price. So you see that revenue grew overall year on year for the quarter just under 15% MF. Again under 15%, non MF about 15.8 and again non MF despite some of the headwinds, not in the entire non MF portfolio, but in some of it. I think it gives great indication of how this part has done. The share of non MF for the year was 13, for the quarter was 13.7. So it is inching up.
And we will make sure that we continue to obtain what we stated is a perceptible differential between the growth rates of non MF and MF. Non MF, even for this year, we’re projecting in excess of 20, closer to 25% growth for the quarter. Absolute EBITDA grew by about 12%. Despite whatever happened, despite the fact that revenue fell by almost 14 crores, almost 4% plus, we have still been able to deliver a close to 45% EBITDA margin. And I would say there is no better testament to how we run this model and how this model operates across its various constituents that despite some of these headwinds, we’ve been able to deliver close to 45% EBITDA margin.
PAT grew about 10% and overall PAT margins stood at 31% for the quarter. So this is a broad financial summary. I know that a lot of you are very curious about the various components of this entire revenue and profit trending, including yields, bips and how it will play out in the next few quarters. I’m very happy to take that up as we move forward in this call. I’ll move forward, just some business highlights and again, I think just foundationally the way we build business, because you build these businesses on operating excellence, delivery, diversity of products, healthy sales, pipeline and how you’re winning and growth of market share, all of that leads to revenue growth.
Revenue growth obviously leads to profit growth in our business like any other business, foundationally, I think all these forces are lining up north, all our cylinders are firing and we wouldn’t have achieved what we achieved in the fourth quarter if those things were not happening. Overall, our market share, my assets stood at 68% market share. Although we have not been quoting that metric in the past. But given the fact that some other people quoted 26 out of 51 working EMCs are with us. Our overall AUM growth in the quarter was 24%. This largely mirrored the industry’s growth.
Equity assets grew about 29%. Equity assets, despite the, despite the, you know, fall in the indices, have been the toast for this industry and have been the toast for us. Equity assets also held the 25 lakh crore mark. Inflows remain sustained. You’ve been seeing the SIP and non SIP inflows and you know that that number has held quite well. SIPs collectively delivered more money in the fourth quarter than they did in the third. A live SIP count grew about 18% to get to what? 5.7 crore. That’s live SIPs gross new SIP registration for the year grew 51%.
So just imagine that whatever we built all those files, the growth was significant at 51%. Our unique investor base did well across the 4 crore mark. This grew significantly ahead of the market. Market was 22. Our new investor grew 26%. But what is most gratifying, I think is the history of camps. I’ve been here nine years, don’t remember a single year where we took more than one AMC Life. In the fourth quarter we took angel one, which is a marquee name, Unifi, which is another marquee name, live during the quarter. Taking the live AMC count now to 21.
But I think the good news is that there are five more of these which are waiting to go live which will happen within the next six months. And I think from investing in the future and creating a future perspective, there is no better news than this. So this five more comprise of course NGO, BlackRock, Pantomance Choice, Toroso, C Bank and there’s one more. So that’s the count that we are expected to take live in the next six months and again brings a lot of strength in the overall scale of the business as we move ahead beyond mutual funds.
Gamspay revenue grew 85% year on year. For the quarter we launched Bima Asba. You know this is a new innovation where you can apply for a life insurance policy and not worry about money getting out of your account and then the insurance company telling you that the application is rejected. You will just see a blocked amount like you see in IPOs. Alternatives had a very strong quarter. 56 new mandate wins. Total new mandate wins for the year, including for Wellserv crossed 200. And those are astounding numbers. You have to be in a place of significant solid market leadership for so many new clients and so many existing clients to place their hands and say look, they want to work with you, which is what’s happening here.
We now have over 200 installations of camps well served repository. Improved market share. I think that’s great news. Improved market share to over 40%. You know that we’ve been quoting 37 and 38 the two numbers for the last almost one year last four quarters of India signing up for repository services though this will begin with the digital issuance only will not go into legacy yet but at some time it will. I think from a signal perspective it’s a fantastic signal for the marketplace so that happened total count of E policies is now exceeding 1 crore so it’s 1.1 crore during the year of course we want to significantly we know that a base growth rate of between 40 to 50 lakh will anyways happen given a 1 million new policies per quarter track record and we’re trying to get some multis to expand this 50 lakh to let’s say 60 or 70 so it should be a promising year for CAHSPRE 3 insurers alive with integrated services of B1 Central Star unit IC was the last one which came in CAHPS KRE had a tough quarter had a tough quarter for all the reasons known to you New folio count creation and MF fell new demat accounts and new broking accounts fell despite this for the year CAHPS KRA had a 30% plus increase in revenue but nice diversification outside MF3 leading brokerages when I say leading think of these as one of the top 10 came into the roster and have started giving us payload Fintople went beyond the custody led platforms to create for NPS which is the pension services with a product called Nibriti have won their first deal to build and integrate a back office platform for a very leading pension funds pop business.
Think of it again in the top 10360 had launched the PFM product We had reported this last time that we are now implementing large fixed price fixed revenue contract 3 years ago 1 of the most downloaded and I could say the most downloaded financial apps in the country so across product lines I think it’s been just great going for the entire business move forward There are charts on operational highlights. There’s nothing in particular that I want to stop and call out. It’s all accessible to you guys Transactions continued to scale Equity AUM share went up about 0.2% from late 65 to 66.1 equity net sales obviously during the year held quite well Move to the next and then similar trends for the fourth quarter are on the charts and you can develop next there are more product wide highlights I’m just thinking if there’s anything you want to call out yeah I would say LIC as an account for account authentication services for campspay has begun to scale up so we would like obviously this to become a large account for us riding on what we will do in repository and in payments.
So the account of services have done well. UPI autopay continues to be promising. Autopay transactions grew almost 25% quarter on quarter. I know there are questions from some of you on whether we had any lumpiness or one time revenue in Camp Spin. Nothing in particular, maybe a couple of crore rupees. I’ll let Rancheran talk about that. But across the across the product line we’ve said this in the past, I’m saying it again that we don’t try to book any upfront income to inflate this quarter. We just let the milestone led billing come to us wherever it is asset or transaction based.
We will bill when we get the assets on the transaction. That’s how the whole thing works. Other than that I think I’ve covered most of the stuff move forward. So what we’ll do is I’ll hand this over to Ramcharan now hand this over to Ram Sinod to take you through the financials and then we’ll have time for the Q and A after that.
Ram Charan Sesharaman — CFO
Ram thanks Anuj. Anuj has already gone through the numbers some level of details so I won’t repeat those numbers. I’ve just kind of drilled down on a couple of details on the financials which may kind of preempt some of the questions that you have. Also the quarter wise growth you have seen it’s 14.7% year on year basis and drop of 3.7% quarter on quarter. The asset based revenue actually if you see the assets went down by around 1.5% on average basis in the quarter and actually the volume variance for us which is what is attributable to the to the reduction in the AUM is actually the 1.5 percentage.
So the major contributing factor for the reduction has been as Anuj mentioned, the price reset that we did for one of immediate customers. If you take that away I think the AUM to AUM fee growth broadly is in line with what we expected. The good news is that the reset has been broadly finalized barring crossing the T’s and dotting the I’s, I think we are at a stage where we know with certainty what the impact will be for this quarter and going forward. Also from a non MF perspective you’ve seen that there has been a healthy growth even in the current quarter.
We’ve added around 6.6% quarter on quarter. The Good part is this is little more broad based. Some people have contributed to this being very localized, but it’s actually a little more broad based. For example AIF grew say 16% year on year, pay grew 85% year on year, rep grew 19% on a quarterly basis. Obviously there was some strain on the KRA revenue which is attributed to the slowness in the capital markets. But actually there are three, four cylinders that are firing now and it’s not one vertical that is contributing disproportionately, although PEI has done exceedingly well when compared to few other verticals.
But the growth is also more broad based in terms of the various verticals and non mf From a yield perspective I know a lot of questions will be there on the yield and as Anuj said, we will take it forward in terms of any questions that you have. But I’ll just leave you with 34 points which is that the repricing that we had alluded to in the last quarter, we had in fact stated explicitly in the last quarter is actually behind us now. We know exactly what is going to happen in terms of yield movement from this particular account going forward.
So you have seen a 4% drop in yield quarter on quarter basis purely from an AUM fee perspective. And this is a different way. We are a little more granular in reporting. What we do when compared to competition is that we report the AEM AUM fee bips as such, which is currently around 2.24 bps. What we expect if you actually pay out the impact going forward is that you will see we have done almost like 50% of the impact is there in the base in this particular quarter. So if you actually move forward you will see probably a similar impact in terms of quantum coming in the next quarter or two and post which everything will be there in the base.
So the whole guidance that we gave in terms of the annual drop in yields, if you see in the current year we would have ended the this is the yearly average speaking about, we ended the year with BIPs of around 2.33 which would have been a 6 to 7% drop in compared to the last year. And then next year you will see a similar kind of a drop, right? We had guided that it will be around 6 to 7% and I think this will be within this range for the next year. But if you take the quarterly bips which is the last quarter bids, which is at 2.24 and if you actually see how it will play going forward, I think the end of Q4 of next year the depletion yields could be close to 4%.
So that’s the exact numbers for you in terms of what we anticipate. Obviously the AEM grows more and the mix is more favorable to us. One of the contributing factors this quarter has been that there is a negative mix impact which is the equity has overall percentage has come down by a percentage point. So which means that what would have been a couple of crores of additional revenue has not accrued to us. But going forward, if the mix is constant, we expect that the yearly yields when compared to the last year, the current year, the yearly yields will drop by around 7 to 8%, most likely around 7%.
And if you take the last quarterly yields and you compare it with the last quarter of next year yields, I think the drop will be closer to 4 to 4.5 percentage. So the thing I would like to reiterate is that the uncertainty that we had predicted to you last quarter in terms of repricing is largely behind us. And the amount, 50% of the amount is there in the base and 50% will get into the base for the next quarter or two. From a profitability perspective, again we’ve shown strong margins. We’ve always said that we will try and endeavor to get a margin of 44 to 45 percentage.
And this quarter was a difficult quarter. There was from an AEM growth, there was more growth. In fact there was a small reduction in AEM plus the repricing impact. Obviously the non MF growth helped us in kind of mitigating the impact. But to end the year in the quarter with a 44.9% margin is I think again as Amit said, a testimony to the resilience of the entire model. So we’ve always said that the fixed cost model and I think this quarter proves the fact that you don’t have a growth in AEM but your costs also remain static.
We did not decrease the cost too much, but you also know cost increase was there. So that is broadly the commentary on the margins, the yields and the growth in non mutual fund business. I will now leave it to the moderator to open the floor up for questions.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press STAR and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Swarnabh Mukerji from BNK Securities. Please proceed.
Swarnabh Mukerji
Hi sir, thank you for the opportunity and thank you so much for giving the details. In terms of the. I just wanted to understand sir, in terms of the contours of the renegotiated contract, I’m trying to understand why would the drop happen over say three odd quarters like you said? Because I mean is it that different schemes would start getting repriced at different points of time or how will it work? Because I was thinking that even if it might have happened somewhere in between the quarters it will take possibly one more quarter for waiting to come into the base.
So if you could help us understand it will take 2, 3/4 only because of the renegotiation impact and not maybe of course otherwise continue to play out. So that is one question. Second is in terms of the insurance repository itself I think congratulations, the trend looks very encouraging. So how much is this coming from the LIC contract? Is it yet to come going forward? And if you could give some color on given the fact that there is more appetite to you know, issue digital policies through insurance account is the how is the pricing environment? If you could give us a broad indications of say account creation charges and you know what is what you incur as revenue when you do the maintenance of an existing account.
Thirdly on the cost side sir, normally you see that I think in first quarter we see a bump in your employee expenses. How should we think about for FY26 or maybe one Q26 onwards on that and also similar commentary on other expenses Because I think when I look at the other expenses number at a consolidated level continue to see that even over the quarters it has increased. Are these outlay for the newer segments because of which you have to spend more? If you can get some indication these would be my questions.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
So I’ll just try to take three of your questions and on the insurance Anand will probably chip in. So with regard to the commercial concept, obviously we wouldn’t like to get into details of the commercial construct but our endeavor has always been, and we have mentioned it in the last quarter also to stagger the impact and also number two has not been to wait for the contact. For example, this particular contact would have come up for renewal in September but you know, we thought that it would be better to kind of take a staggered impact over a period of couple of quarters.
So the commercial construct is that it’s not as we are deferring anything or there is something that we are delayed provisioning or Something that, that you reflected in the, in the fact that it will get staggered over a couple of quarters. So most of the impact is there in the 50% is in this quarter, close to 50% be there in the next quarter and whatever is, you know, balance, some small part of it could be there in the quarter after that. But that’s the way the contract is also structured and that’s the way our revenue will be booked.
So that’s the reason for that. From the cost side, see the other expenses, you will see that overall from a cost control perspective the last quarter has been almost like a flat. If you take away the depreciation, which is obviously a reflection of the increased investments we are doing in capex in terms of various compliances as well as the increase in transaction volume, the cost increase has been zero, literally zero. Right. And the other expenses are more a reflection of some timing differences. For example the, you know, there could be some delay collection in some accounts which could, you know, accounting wise we will have to create what is called an expected credit loss which is not a permanent loss, it is kind of a timing loss. So those things will contribute. And there are some legal expenses that we have done. There is this MF Central that we incorporated for which we had to Pay lawyer fees, etc. So this is not a trend going forward. Overall from the next year perspective we have repeatedly said that we will be able to hold costs at a less than 10% increase when compared to the current year, which I think is very much achievable.
We will try to do better than that. But less than 10% is something that we are forecasting for the next year too. So that shouldn’t be, that shouldn’t be something topmost in mind, you know, in terms of what we can do in terms of insurance repository Anuj probably so.
Auj Kumar
Just in terms of insurance repository you would have seen that till about a year back we used to increment volumes at the rate of about 20 to 25 lakh a year. Last one year this increase has almost doubled to become 40 to 50 lakh. LIC is still not integrated. So while they’ve taken a decision and integration is happening, real policy flow will start only from the month of July. They have the option of saying that all new issuance which Is upwards of 2 and a half crore policies will come into demat. But what we increasingly believe is that most of the digital channel issuance will happen in Demat which could be under 1 crore new policies in a year.
So we expect that this year just at an organic rate we would have got about 50 lakh new policies anyways. All the impact of LIC could be between 15 to 20 lakh policies if everything happens in time, which it is showing signs that it will. So it will be a nice filip if we get that 20 lakh on top of the base 50 and then as LIC kind of moves forward beyond digital into other kind of issuances, those numbers can only go up. It has the capability to almost given the market share more than half of the market that if they bring in all the heft the demarting pace will certainly go to 2x in the market, let’s say in the next 3 to 4 quarters.
That is clear. So therefore it’s a, it’s a big selling to the market as far as policy issuance and policy council. The prices are all fixed, you know that whatever the prices have moved southwards in the last two or three years but they’re pretty stable now. So we expect that because most of these are long term contracts, the prices will stay where they are. The icing on the cake is that as these new insurance companies come in they will all start getting integrated with BIMA Central which is the cinder only proprietary platform to do electronic transactions in one place for your whole portfolio.
Which means you open an account with Camp Repository Services and then Demo Central is open for reminders, payments, digital, lien, claim marking, all of those things. So there of course the first transaction, prices and yields are much better and as that happens I think the cumulative impact of the volume of these two things things will be perceptible in terms of how that market grows.
Swarnabh Mukerji
Understood sir, Just couple of follow ups. One is how are the commercials for the BIMA Hyderabad part? Is there any difference in that? And also like you had mentioned in your opening remark about CAMS pay and I think phenomenal growth there, I think quarter on quarter also very strong. So if there is nothing lumpy as you have mentioned then how do you think about is this coming because of the new mandate you have gotten over the last few quarters or is it that organically the whole ecosystem is driving this growth.
Auj Kumar
So I’ll take the payments question first. I think one part of the growth is is this very simple where we are working with let’s say mutual funds where the SIP count and the number of natches or one time mandates that were registered, the triggers continue to happen. As you see momentum in these smaller SIP counts, the Jyoti sip, Jan Nivesh and some of the AMC now launching this daily Collection product right where you can debit 20 rupees, 50 rupees and 100 rupees from the accounts of non salaried people. You will anyways continue to see growth there.
So that’s one part of it. We had said about a year back that we are now broadening our reach into the education system which is to collect fees and recurring charges from students for merchants which are essentially universities, colleges and hospitals that has shown some pickup. The BIMA as per part will scale over a period of time. Right now it’s a very new thing. But you must have read that idea insists now that this delay in refunds of money for policies which are not accepted and not granted is hurting investors. And therefore this innovation is coming.
Apart from this we have not built out a payment gateway product. We were a pure payment aggregator and we have now built out the gateway products. So we’ve begun to get some revenues from this. So collectively this is part of the non MF business. Non MF is about run rate about 200 crores a year. We are saying that this year we will certainly like to get to about 25% growth debt like in the previous years. So about a 50 crore absolute increase. Payments should be the number one going in force for growth this year too.
Alternatives and KRA will be the other two. I hope that answers your question.
operator
It seems like the participants line has been disconnected so no problem.
Auj Kumar
We can go to the next please.
operator
Okay, the next question is from the line of Devesh Agarwal from IIFL Capital. Please proceed.
Devesh Agarwal
Good morning sir and thank you for the opportunity. Coming back to the price renegotiation that you talked about. So just to understand this better the entire impact to a large extent will be captured in the first two quarters. First quarter has already gone by and the following quarter we see the balance impact.
Auj Kumar
That’s correct. Just think of it this way that about half of the impact. And you know I don’t want to get into granular reconciliation in this call but think that half of the impact that we had to take is already in the books. So that’s good news. Like we said we had a 370 crore revenue quarter in the third quarter. Third quarter to fourth quarter loss is about 14 crore out of which business reasons only account for about 3 crore. The balance is all price. That’s half of the impact. The balance half of what we have to take in price will happen in the first and second quarters.
But like Ram said I think we wanted it to be definitive non fuzzy and we didn’t even want to give you a directional quote, we just want to give you short of telling you the firm numbers, I’m just telling you what it is. So from a future quarter perspective, I think one question in everyone’s mind would be on what will revenue look like because we will take some more haircut in 1Q and 2 which will be 50% of the impact. Our guess is that other things holding the 355, 360 crore line should not be breached as far as overall revenue is concerned.
Which means in one Q although I’m not giving you a firm guidance, but just indicatively we believe that we will not breach that line and go below that and then we start building up on growth again. That’s how the quarter will look right sir.
Devesh Agarwal
And you also did mention that the exit run rate for the yield is likely to be around 3.15. If you build that 2.1 side versus 2.2 for this quarter.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Sorry, your question was exit yield for the current quarter or what we expect to be in the
Devesh Agarwal
current quarter from. 2 to 2.24 you’re saying the XY26 exit would be 2.1.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
That is the expectation, yeah, 0.09 reduction. 0.08 to 0.09 is what we expect.
Devesh Agarwal
This particular contract, if I recollect right, has again come up for remediation. As you said it was due in September but it has some of now what confidence do you have that we have to a large extent completed the negotiations with them and this will not sit back in say a year or two time again.
Auj Kumar
So when you look at it Devesh, like I said that unlike peers and depositories etc. Where there are standard rate cards because the services of scope are undifferentiated, I think in the RTA books you are aware since you research the sector that prices can be different depending upon when a client came in and also upon some of the specific scope that was performed for them. Scope differentials were very deep at one time before the digital era, so think till about 2021. Scopes are very different. So I could be servicing the parent organization of a particular MF and I may have physical ability to do KYC at several thousand branches.
We may have biometric machines there. We may be lugging paper in checks. In the digital era a lot of that happens digitally and therefore that scope asymmetry has been going away for some time. So when you think of this, I know that some of you believe or like to think of this as coercive Negotiation. The way I like to think about this is that it’s more about seeking parity in a non parity led world. That’s what’s happened in this contract. So therefore we don’t believe that there is an irrational component to this at all. It is reasonably irrational.
We’d also said that we were wanting to do this over a longer time period. I mean if you see how we’ve done it versus how we wanted to do it. I would have liked to do it over a couple of years. We are doing it over a couple of quarters. Because it’s a slightly oldish dialogue. It was best to put these things behind us. But I just want to take out the coerciveness of the situation from your mind saying that this is a surprise, this will be sprung upon us again and again. I think it was rational.
There was a reason. Both sides agreed. We disagreed a little on the timing, but in the end we brought it up.
Devesh Agarwal
Can you say that once this pricing is done, the similar size AMCs will be in a. The price differential between these single size entries will be in a small range and to that extent we would not see any further risk. Yes, any more contracts which are coming up for renewal in this year in FY26.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
So nothing major. We do have as a part of regular couple of smaller size contracts coming up as they do in every year. Probably there are two, three that are coming up in the current year. But as I said last time, all the major contract have been renewed and this was something which we have also closed in the last couple of weeks. So you will not see any major repricing or major contract negotiations or major drop in because of new customer contracts that we are negotiating in the current year. Other than what? Obviously we have spoken about the current contract.
Devesh Agarwal
Right sir. And sir, in terms of new ANC’s it’s hardening to see that 4,5 new ANC’s have started operation and we expect another 4,5 ancs to start operation over the next six months. Do you think this incremental new ANC that have come up almost to the number of around 10 will that have a drag on the margins in FY26 as they scale up the operations or they are too small to dent the market?
Auj Kumar
Yes, right now they are too small to create a drag. I think the positive thing is that two have hit operations, five more will hit. So that’s seven new in one year. And I think as they all stabilize and move to a few thousand crore of aum, the collective AUM will be large, still small in the context of the overall 49,50 lakh crore that we manage. I don’t think just look at it as a large positive devesh that this creates the way for us to scale in the marketplace over the long term. The total cost on these may be at a company level 100, 120 people deployed, which is not very significant in terms of the overall size of the company.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
I’d also like to add that, you know it’s not as if we start investing on this the day they go live. Which means for these 4, 5AMCs the cost that you see in the fourth quarter contains the cost not only of the gone live AMCs but also the going live AMC side. It’s not as if we can start the earlier day and make them live so we start six months in advance. So a large part of the cost that you’re seeing and in spite of that my salary cost is 32 to 33 percentage is there in the base and obviously there’ll be some incremental cost but it’s not going to be material in the overall margins perspective.
Devesh Agarwal
Right sir. And so one last one in the non MSI if you can share what was the margin in FY25 and EBITDA margins and what are your expectations?
Ram Charan Sesharaman
So you will see that there is a mix, right? So you have a profitable, very profitable kra, you have a profitable payments but you also have some growth businesses which are going to turn the corner in the coming couple of years or a couple of quarters in some cases which is your account aggregator, CRA repository etc, think analytics etc. So combined margins we said is between 10 and 15 percentage. The last quarter is also coming with a simple similar number between 10 and 15 percentage of EBITDA. Our expectation is next year this will go closer to 20% of EBITDA.
That’s the expectation from our side that we will reach a 20% EBITDA on the non mutual fund businesses in the next year which will obviously have a beneficial impact on the overall company margins.
Devesh Agarwal
Right sir, that’s very helpful and thank you so much and all the very fast.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Supratim Dutta from Ambit. Please proceed.
Supratim Dutta
Thanks for opportunity. My first question is on the non asset based revenues. Just wanted to understand what would be the split of your Ms. Central or call center and the paper based transaction in this revenue. This has been growing despite you talking about, you know, digital transactions becoming more prevalent. So what wanted to understand how has the mix of revenue here changed versus two years to today. And how much of this would be linked to transaction? If you could give some color on that, that would be very helpful. My second question is on the payment aggregator business, I understand that you know you have, you know, you talk about the education institutions that you have gone into.
So could you give us a split of your, you know, revenues coming from customers now? What would be MF versus what would be your educational institutes there and how does that, and how does that play out over the next two to three years? If you could give some color on that, that also will be very helpful. And lastly on the cost, I’m not sure whether this has been discussed before. Joined a bit late. So on the employee cost, typically we have seen escalation. This year the employee cost growth was higher than what typically it has been.
And I understand that’s because of the new businesses that you have been ramping up. But as I look into FY26 or 27, how should I think about employee cost? Is there a need for further addition here or how does that play out as a proportion of your revenues? If you could give some color on that, that would be helpful, thank you.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Sure. I’ll just take the questions one after another one is the non asset based revenue split. I think 30, almost 1/3 of that will be the transaction. When you say transaction revenue, there is also the paper transaction and some amount of digital transaction, but predominantly it’s paper transactions revenue. So and you do have an increasing component of things like what you mentioned which is the MF Central and the various other applications that we kind of get a license fee for. For example the analytics application called MF Dex or the CRM application or the or data replication application and some analytics xir etc.
So you are right from a mix perspective. You know we do see some increasing contribution from the applications and miscellaneous billing that we do on the value added services and you will have probably just to take a rough split. If you have 200 crores as your non asset based billing, around 75 crores could be your transaction and your mischievous application could be around 35 crores. Your call center could be around 30 crores and your op will be a large part of it which is the 50 plus crores will be the ope and NF4 could be a couple of crores.
Such as broad split, you know, it’s not exact numbers but just to give you an idea, there’s a broad split of a 200 crore non asset based revenue that you have the increase in this is attributable to two things. One is the cost center is growing. It’s growing by around 5 to 10 percentage. It’s also because application revenue is growing because of the new functionalities that we bring in, the new applications that we give to our AMCs for which we build. So both of these are causing the increase in the mix, so to say. But predominantly still continues to be the transaction billing that we do up to 1/3 almost is like that.
Right from the second question that you had. I think it was on the cost side. Yes. Actually you will see the first quarter of the coming year or any year for that matter is the year in which predominantly the appraisal kicks in. Major part of the employee workforce will get an have got an increase effective from April 1st. So that could suppress the margins by a couple of percentage points. And that’s why we kind of say that the quarter one has been historically not only the current year. Every year you take in the past you have seen a margins of close to 43 percentage.
42 and a half to 43 percentage will be the EBITDA because there will be a one time, still not a one time but there will be an impact of the annual appraisals that happen. But you know we did have a lot of hiring happen last year, right? We added on a net headcount basis around 750 to 800 people last year. And as you also like the alluded to, a lot of it is because of the ramp up we are doing in the non mutual fund businesses. We also invested on talent. We’ve got new talent out from IITs and IIMs to kind of power our future.
We are working on things like the cyber security, various other cutting edge technologies which will require a different skill set. So not only have the number of people increased, the cost per person is also increased increase from overall hiring perspective. But this year will be little more muted. I think we have the building blocks in place. We have built the platform, we have built out a sales force which is going to the market which was non existent probably three, four years back. So all this has taken some bit out of the profits from us for the last year.
But going forward we feel that there will be stability. Stability in terms of the employee cost, stability in terms of the other costs also. So to have 32 percentage of overall revenue to be, you know it is around 33 percentage currently to be the employee cost would be a good assumption to make. And that’s what we are working towards minded that we will also have some rationalization manpower going forward because of the automation initiatives, because of, you know, the staggered implementation of the E ARC culture. We will have some rationalization in manpower going forward also from the core business.
So overall you do not see an increase in employee cost in the. In the current year from overall percentage perspective. If anything we are looking at a small decrease so that you know, you will definitely stability. See stability in employee cost. Your other question was on. On insurance Payment aggregator.
Supratim Dutta
Payment aggregator. So just wanted the split of the customer base. Now given that you have.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Yeah, so when we started off you would understand it’s almost 100%, you know, a few years back of mutual fund and SIPs and related stuff. So we had a process of diversification where we got into first NBFCs and you know, as Anuj was mentioning, you know, got into education space. We’ve tied up with a couple of colleges and ERP provider but it is early serious from education perspective. So overall it will be a few crores of revenue in a year. What we have also done is diversified into insurance space also we have signed up at least five new insurance customers.
So while it will be more kind of a 55, 45 split of MF or non MF in the current year going forward, the next year we expect it more to be 6040 kind of split which is. No, sorry, which is 60% of non mutual fund revenue and 40% of mutual fund related SIP revenue for the payment business is what we expect in the current year.
Supratim Dutta
Got it. And one final question. So just wanted to understand this Jan SIP which has been launched by several Ms. How would the pricing there be different from regular SIPs?
Auj Kumar
So these products like you know, the Choti SIP across the industry and Gen Nimesh in the context of one EMC have been launched. The crescent of activity that you would expect hasn’t been attained yet for your purpose. You can think of these as regular equations instruments. We obviously give the industry some remission in our overall charging framework for assets, for KRA and for payments. And for an obvious reason that at that size where you’re collecting only 100 rupees or 20 rupees a day, the cost of collection, cost of an SMS or email, all those costs add up to prohibitively discourage anyone from scaling these products.
So the industry kind of thought and discussed for almost a year in terms of how we should expand this. And in the end not just camps, but Collectively between the RTA’s, KRAS depositories and payment aggregators, we decided that we will give It a leg up. I won’t go into specific numbers but just think of it this way, that in the interest of creating this initial scale we’ve also contributed to some differential pricing. It’s a uniform differential pricing. So it’s not that CAMS is giving any special deal to anyone. But that decision was kind of nudged by sebi, led by AMFI and has been taken at the industry level.
Supratim Dutta
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sarthak Nortyal from Iraya Capital. Please proceed.
Auj Kumar
Hello.
Sarthak Nortyal
Hello.
Auj Kumar
Yes, go ahead.
Sarthak Nortyal
So thanks for the opportunity of asking questions.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
I just want to know one thing.
Auj Kumar
As we have told there’s a very high switching cost in this industry. Right.
Sarthak Nortyal
So I just want to know why any RTF which will shift from cake.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Into cans or cans to Cain.
Sarthak Nortyal
This is my first question.
Auj Kumar
Sure. So just given the nature of the business, you know that the liability side operations scope is vast. It creates very strong linkages of both the end investor and the intermediaries to our platforms, to the RTI platforms. There is a very long and honorable record keeping work that has to be done. There are liabilities which are shared by the RTA’s. If they have committed a mistake, the mistake may have happened 20 years back. All the digital linkages, the compliance reporting, all of that has to be done and the front office network has to be used for a particular client.
So like in any large operation this is very different to either IT Services or bpo. As you know bpo you know that a lot of companies put their entire scope on on RFP every five or seven or 10 years. It’s very different here that a yank out decision is very difficult to take. You wouldn’t have seen in the last 10 years any skilled AMC to have taken that decision. One or two small ones may have taken that decision owing to performance kind of a reason for delivery reasons but it’s not a very common occurrence.
Sarthak Nortyal
Okay, super.
Auj Kumar
Just want to ask a follow up question on that.
Sarthak Nortyal
I have asked the question to Capin, met with the management.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
They have said that in the last.
Sarthak Nortyal
15 years 10 of the mutual funds are shifted from camps to KSM.
Auj Kumar
So can you throw some light on it? Well I would say you should do a follow on and get names from them and then make a phone call to me and then we can see.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
I think there, I think nothing has happened that the public records are there for everybody to see. So you can look at it. The two things have shifted from cave into camps but the other way around. I don’t think it has ever happened in the last decade. So yeah, as Anu said, it will be useful for you to kind of reach out to us with specific names so that we can either revert or correct ourselves.
operator
Sorry to interrupt. It seems like the participants line has got disconnected. Hello sir, Am I audible?
Auj Kumar
Hello sir, go ahead. No, go out please.
operator
Okay, I’ll go with the next question. Yes, the next question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please proceed.
Prayesh Jain
Hi, good afternoon everyone. Just first question is on the mutual fund business. Is there any impact of lesser number of days on the yield in this quarter? Generally AMCs feel the pinch of it, but do we also feel the pinch of it?
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Praish I think I’d just like to correct the misconception that probably a lot of your colleagues also had and have reached out to me on so the way we bill is the number of days does not determine the revenue. That’s very simple. You have a average AUM for a month which is the AUM on a daily basis. We take the average for the month. So it doesn’t really matter whether the average is for 28 days or 30 days. You just have a final average number and the rates are applied on a monthly basis. So irrespective of whether you have a 28 day or a 31 day month, the revenue for the month will not be impacted by the extra one or two days.
The rates are actually annual rates but are applied on a monthly basis irrespective of whether it’s a 28 or 31 day month. So there will be no change by the fact that the quarter has two days more or less to the overall revenue number.
Prayesh Jain
Got that. Secondly you know on the on the camps pay business you enrolled LIC and how you know so how when was this and do you think that you know last part of your growth guidance on fiat would be LIC would be a key factor in terms of gams pay.
Auj Kumar
So good question. This business was signed up exactly one year back in March April of 24. It is not about premium collection yet. So just want to clarify we are not collect. We don’t have any exclusive deal to collect insurance premium yet. These are account authentication services which is the normal service which you see across the insurance and the asset management world where you verify somebody is a pays account that it is generally held by them is not a third party account and the branch effect has not got shut. So that’s a set of services because the digital business is going up I think A lot of non check payments are beginning to happen.
So this is that service. So we continue to be in conversations with them to expand. The FY26 guidance of growth in CamSpay is not so much an IC LIC will scale but I think it’s all the components. The large growth in the SIP numbers in the last one year, some addition from payment gateway, some from education. Of course LIC will be a component but I would not think that it is going to be more than 10 or 15% of the overall growth numbers that are being spoken about.
Prayesh Jain
Right. And with respect to the margins, how should we look about margins in FY26? You know you mentioned that their employee employee cost would be maintained at about 33% of revenues. That is what you mentioned. Right. And OPEX should see some kind of steady growth. On the other hand non MF businesses profitability should improve. So given this trajectory, should we expect an improvement in ebitda margins in FY26 versus FY25? So in prash in normal course that would have answered would have been yes. But you know as we have guided earlier there could be some impact of the price that we will see in the course of the year also remaining close to 50% of the impact that we will see. So our aim is from a margin perspective while we enter the year on 46 next year would would probably be 44 kind of a margin percentage which is what we are all working for. Obviously it is predicated on mutual fund growing reasonably if not equal to current.
We know it’s not possible equal to the current year’s growth in terms of 30 plus percentage. But if there’s a reasonable growth in mutual funds and after eating the price impact, an increase in non mutual fund margin and cost control, we feel that 44% EBITDA for the year next year is definitely achievable.
Prayesh Jain
Are you being conservative in terms of giving the guidance? Because you know obviously if you look at the Q4 EBITDA margin where you had an impact of about 50% of ETC, you still delivered a 44.9% EBITDA margin and you’re talking about FY26 EBITDA margin of about you know, 44%. So are you being conservative here in terms of that guidance or you know, how should we read this so prayers.
Auj Kumar
Think of it this way that we are not building all of this on an expectation of a 20% AUM growth. We’ve had a 20% AUM growth CAGR over the last five years. If that happens then of obviously the numbers can be better. We are expecting that AUM growth will be more moderate, will be maybe 1112 percent and if AUM grows 1112 percent then obviously revenue growth is 8 to 9% which has to cushion the incremental impact that’s coming and then has to contribute. And non MF we know even at 25% on a 200 crore base we’ll add about 5050 crores to the revenue but cannot add hundred crores to the revenue non MFA if it does superlatively well the 50 absolute agreement can grow to 60 or at best 70 but will never be 100.
So the way to then think about it is that and again I don’t want to do any other reconciliation here that if non MF contributes let’s say 50 to 60 crore, absolute MF is let’s say 120, 130 crore net of discount is about 7080 crore. A possibility to scale overall group revenue on a base of. I mean just remember that 10% absolute revenue growth on a base of 142, I mean 1420, 1430 is almost 145 crore. So my guess is that a double digit, even low teens number will be difficult to fit at the asset growth that we are estimated.
If assets grow at 20% we will have a different story to tell. But right now I don’t think the ground has been built to assume that FY26 is a 20% asset growth here.
Prayesh Jain
Got that? That’s pretty helpful. Just last question in terms of CapEx and investment, how should we think about FY26?
Ram Charan Sesharaman
So there are two aspects to it. One is the regular CapEx that course in the BAU and another is the RE architecture project that we are running. The first you will see normal capex happening. You know this time we had to do some extra capex because of some CB requirements of air gap center etc. Next year you will have another 50 crores kind of an addition to it capex and probably another 1015 crores to the other capex that we have. So but from a VR perspective we will accelerate our spending in the current. Last year was the first year where we had probably eight, nine months of work done the REARC and the initial design part of it.
So this year we will kind of accelerate our spend on rearc. The benefits will start flowing in from the end of this year too. So I expect Overall from a capex perspective we will spend around 100 crores on the overall meaning on the RE architecture part of it and we will spend another 70 crores on the other Capex part of it. So this will be a year in which there’ll be cash outflow for these two things from Capex perspective.
Prayesh Jain
Got that. Thank you and wish you all the best.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Nuama Wealth Management Ltd. Please proceed.
Madhukar Ladha
Good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity. Most of my questions have been answered. I want just this one clarification. I think you spelled out the non asset based MF revenue in different categories. So you said call center was 30 crores out of pocket expenses about 50 crores. And then what is the application revenue? And yeah, can you just give that split that adds up to about 185 crores. That’s my first question. Second question, I think last year our net sales market share was about 75%. What would that number be for FY25? And third question on depreciation.
So we see a pretty big jump in depreciation in Q4, right? Would that be our run rate going forward for next year? And given that you also just gave out the Capex numbers like you know 100 crores is going into the architecture and additional 65 crores on, on other CapEx. So would that mean that this, this would probably increase even more than that is what I’m guessing. I want some clarity on that.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
So I’ll just take your depreciation question first. Yes, as I’ve said that we have actually spent a lot of money on things like you know, renewal of Oracle licenses and Shaplex and all air gap center that we have set up as a part of the regulations. The SEBI has mandated that you know, you have a fourth kind of a data center to protect us in, in case there is a ransomware attack, etc. So you will see you have seen a depreciation in the current quarter. This should be the broadly the run rate going forward. There is no barring some accelerated depreciation that we did for some intangible assets being very conservative that’s probably a crore of depreciation that we took on the books.
Barring that everything is probably part of the run rate. Obviously the depreciation on the gaunt like component of rear will start kicking in only from the end of next year when the module goes live. So for the first few quarters you won’t see an increase in depreciation because of that. There is no depreciation because of the additional CapEx that we do which is around 60, 65 crores. That we expect that will start flowing in as and when we do the purchase of those particular servers or storage or whatever it is. So the real part of depreciation I think will be more something which will start going into the books for the end of next next year rather than the first few quarters because the module will have to go live.
Otherwise I think we are on track to kind of keep the current quarter at the run rate of the depreciation going forward. That is on the depreciation part of it. Can you repeat the other question?
Madhukar Ladha
The breakup of the non asset based revenue on digital 12 months number it.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Was around 200 crores. Was the non asset based number 185 crores?
Sarthak Nortyal
Right. Isn’t it so non asset business 185 non asset. No, I’m sorry, sorry, sorry. 195, 196.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Yeah. Approximately 200 crores. So that out of which I kind of the transaction revenue is around 71 crores. The miscellaneous is around 34 crores. There is some, there is some NFO revenue and recoverables which is around NFO is around 6.5 crores. Recoverables is, is 54 crores and the call center is 32 crores. That’s the split from the human sponsor and there will be there. But largely that has been the trend going forward. It’s a small increase in, you know, the mix for call center and for business and application over the last few years which will sustain going forward.
Madhukar Ladha
Understood. The application and batch services are still quite low compared to what we hear for the industry and from competition. So any thoughts around that as to what’s preventing us from growing this part of the business?
Ram Charan Sesharaman
So two parts to it. I’ll answer from an accounting perspective is that some of the application revenue that we do is also built into the AUM pricing. In the large deals you kind of tend to kind of bundle it as a part of for AEM pricing. And there are a lot of value added work that we do in our sterling software also which is more to do with the website development and APIs and all those things which is counted as a part of the sterling revenue which is not a part of this. But yeah, predominantly we have thought about a lot of these features as a salience.
Right. From a philosophical perspective for example we could bill for all our transactions in my camps we are probably number three or number four in terms of cross sales but we kind of provide it to a customer that’s a value add increasing our sales in the entire customer ecosystem. And hence we are not very charged about making it as a commercial model. We kind of are providing value to. We know that we are providing value to the customers. It’s one of the value proposition that we advocate and not necessarily something that we commercially exploit fully.
Philosophically, we have let it be like that. Whether we will revisit in the future is a different question. But so far commercial has not been the first priority when we kind of do value add to our customers.
Madhukar Ladha
Got it. And final was on the net sales market share. So net sales last year I think for FY25 was about 75%. And FY25, what would that number be?
Auj Kumar
That number will be in the mid-60s. A lot of that depends upon, you know, NFO performance, NFO market share, etc. Which is in the range of 68 to 70. I think on average this will be mid-60s, late-60s kind of number.
Madhukar Ladha
Got it, sir. Thank you. And all the best.
Auj Kumar
Thanks.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Uday Pai from Investec. Please proceed.
Uday Pai
Yeah, thank you sir. Just a couple of questions. Firstly, on the AIF side, while you mentioned that we are adding multiple clients, we have class 200 kinds threshold but in terms of revenue, the run rate has been pretty much same over the last five quarters. So any thoughts over there? And the second question is on the KRA side, could you mention this split of the KRA between new SIP revenue split on account of new SIP creation and on new DMAX or is it 100% SIP creation only? Those are the two questions. Thank you.
Auj Kumar
Sure. So on AIF, I just want to reinforce that it’s a significant, well established market leadership story. Why is it like that? You’ve seen the number of wins, obviously you are in the marketplace so you can see where most of the new AFS are heading. We’ve held on despite significantly heightened competition in the last two to three years with several new players kind of coming and flexing their muscles. Including on price, we’ve held that 50% share of the outsourced market. We are the largest player in Gift City in a within excess of 30 commercial customers.
We absolutely rule and straddle the digital onboarding market with 200 installations across the. Across the domestic market, the revenue has grown about 17% year on year. We would have liked it to be over 20%. Do remember that this is now much smaller BIPS yield kind of a market. It’s a more. It’s a more fixed price kind of a market that EIF has developed into. But from an overall market perspective. And we don’t do, you know, stamp duty only or demat only kind of deals. We don’t have a single customer, even if it’s a relationship customer, just to report some inflated customer counts because we know those are empty calories and we don’t want to work for being paid 5,000 rupees a year.
So we have none of that. Not a single customer contract like that. We believe we built a very pristine portfolio there and as our automation and delivery continue to go up, you will see significant scale up build in this market over the coming days.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
I just like to add that I don’t know why you have the impression that it is static because on 12 month basis the AAF revenue has grown 18% even on a sequential quarter basis. Last time we grew 6 percentage. Right. Which is not decent numbers. Right. Which is not bad numbers at all. On a year on year basis we have grown 16 percentage on AAF revenue. So yeah, we are making progress. The growth is there. It is significant growth. It’s not by any stretch kind of a static kind of revenue number.
Uday Pai
Sure sir. On the KRA side.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
So the kra, you know, rough split that you should take is that from an MF perspective we have around 65 to 70% of revenue will be contributing attributed by the SIPS or the MF new onboarding, not sips, new onboarding in the mutual funds. And from a DEMAT or the share working side we’ll have the 30 to 35% of our revenue.
Auj Kumar
Do keep in mind that the DEMAT and broking marketplace is 3x the size of the MF marketplace which means a number of new investors and new accounts which are open in MF about 2, 3 times are opened in the DMAT and Broken World. So as an opportunity. Opportunity. It’s a much bigger opportunity from a penetration perspective we have continued to penetrate.
Uday Pai
Sure. So just one last question if I can squeeze in. Is LIC exclusively working with CAMS rep or it has onboarded other repositories as well? And what is the size of potential revenue that you see over there?
Auj Kumar
LIC signed up with Gamsnap as the first contract over a period of time. So you must have seen at least one announcement from a competing repository. But they’re signing up with everyone. So they’ll sign up with all the four repositories. Like I said, in the first year we expect that LIC will contribute 50 to 70 lakh new policies to the industry on a full year basis. On a part year basis, the number May be smaller. So that’s what I can tell you that from our base of gaining 40 to 50 lakh new policies LIC could.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Easily add about 15, 20 lakh to that.
Auj Kumar
So they could easily represent about 30 to 40% of new policies coming in. And obviously it will be referral to.
Uday Pai
Sure sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you.
Auj Kumar
Should we have one last question on the phone?
operator
Sure. The next question is from the line of Sanket Godha from Evanders Park. Please proceed.
Sanket Godha
Thank you for the opportunity. Right now you checked that non Ms. Business EBITDA margins are somewhere between 10 to 15 and if I do a back calculation the mutual fund EBITDA margin will come somewhere between 50 to 51 percentage. So. And you said that 46 can potentially go to 44. So. So is it fair to say that you are trying to see probably 4 to 5% compression in the mutual fund business largely because of the yield pressure and muted. So that’s the way you are looking at the business to play out in 2015.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
So I think we said that we do expect on a year, on year basis the ease to compress. I think maybe the numbers to be compared to FY25. I think we will have a 7% yield compression. But you know that is assuming a very, very moderate increase in aum, right? So obviously the AUM growth is much more than you will see a different yield compression number. So yes, from a year on year basis from yield compression we do feel that compared to FY25 FY26 will have a close to 7 percentage compression and yield.
Sanket Godha
Okay. And lastly a data keeping question. If you can give two numbers, your employee count and second your number of KRA accounts you have. I think that number was some 1.8 crore. So what is the recent number?
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Around 1.9 plus grants in our KRA business. And what is the second question you asked?
Sanket Godha
Number of employees.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Number of employees? Around 8,100.
Devesh Agarwal
Okay, perfect. Thank you.
operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. That was the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Thank you. Thank you for your participation in this call and the continued interest that you are showing in camps. As always, please feel free to reach out to Anish or Kayatri or to link in time in case you have any questions. And we are also available for any clarification that you may have. Thank you once again and please continue to be interested in the CAMS process.
operator
On behalf of Computer Age Management Services Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines. Sa.