PI Industries Ltd (NSE: PIIND) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 20, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Nishid Solanki — Investor Relations
Salil Singhal — Chairman Emeritus
Sanjay Agarwal — Chief Financial Officer
Ramesh Subramanian — Global CEO
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Rohit Nagraj — Analyst
Vivek Rajamani — Analyst
Abhijit Akella — Analyst
Ankur Periwal — Analyst
Saurabh Jain — Analyst
Krishan Parwani — Analyst
Suman kumar — Analyst
Riju Dalui — Analyst
Keyur Pandya — Analyst
Himanshu Binani — Analyst
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan — Analyst
Madhav Marda — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to PI Industries Limited Q4FY25 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touch tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nisheet Solanki from CDR India. Thank you. And over to you, Mr. Solanki.
Nishid Solanki — Investor Relations
Thank you. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us on PI Industries Q4FY25 earnings conference call. Today we are joined by senior members. Of the management team including Mr. Mayank. Singhal, Executive Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Rajneek Sarna Jo, Managing Director, Mr. Sanjay Agarwal, Group Chief Financial Officer, Dr. Atul Gupta, CEO Exports, Mr. Prashanth Hegr, CEO Domestic Brands and Dr. Ramesh Ramasugramanya, Global CEO PI Health Sciences. We will begin the call with key. Perspectives from Mr. Singhal. Following that, Mr. Agarwal will share his views on the financial performance. Thereafter, the forum will be open for question and answer session. Before we begin, I would like to underline that certain statements that may be made on today’s conference call may be. Forward looking in nature. And a disclaimer to this effect has been included in the investor presentation shared with you earlier and also available on stock exchange websites. I would now like to request Mr. Singhal to share his perspectives. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Salil Singhal — Chairman Emeritus
Yes, thanks and good afternoon. Thank you everyone and good afternoon to all present. I aim to discuss the operating environment and provide you an update on our strategic initiatives to announce a global position as a leader in technology, research and manufacturing in the life science arena. Let me start by providing a brief perspective in the industry scenario. While the overall drug protection market continues to expand, challenging emerges in the form of extreme climate events. Commodity pricing, tighter regulations, softer plant sentiments, pricing pressures which weigh on the pace of growth. The industry is steadily pivoting towards more sustainable practices with growing investments and innovations of biological precision agriculture and digital farming.
In the recent months, trade flows have been impacted by tariff force. However, in the mid to long term remains positive. Driven by the rising needs of high agricultural productivity, greater resilience against climate threats and faster shift towards sustainability. Domestically, the science and the volume growth has observed driven early tariff sowing activities and favorable monsoon indications. The adoption of biologicals gained further momentum aligning with the broader sustainable trends. Nevertheless, price realization remain under pressure due to global oversupplies, increased generic competition and declining raw materials costs, the sector growth trajectory will increasingly influence by innovation in differentiated solutions and shift towards sustainable crop protection and supportive policy measures.
Amid the business environment, outsourcing still remains a strategic imperative for multinational companies in the agrochemical Cost competitiveness, supply chain diversification and need for stronger regulatory compliance are driving innovators to outsource manufacturing to India while in the pharmaceutical industry outsourcing ME aligns with high value complex segments driven by end to need, regulatory and scalability. Both sectors are shifting towards deeper long term partnerships with companies piloting resilience, operating efficiencies. With the focus of technology and innovation, we are targeting growth opportunities in the CSM and expanding the addressable market of 1520 billion in innovative products and AG. In parallel we are actively positioning ourselves to capture across the value chain of the multibillion dollar market of pharmaceuticals in the CRDMO and electronic and biologicals.
This is well in line with the transformation from ag science company to a life science company. Once again the PI team yet again has delivered a commendable performance in Q4 and for the year as a whole. Given the environment. Our standalone performance for the year featured 6% growth and revenue 17% growth in EBIT broadly in line with our guidelines. The consolidated financials were marginally lower due to development spends in the newer business arenas. During 25 our act and exports have continued to show improvement in 5% growth which is in line with our plans. The growth are mainly driven by our new products commercialization in the last years with a 31% growth which we’ve been able to achieve year on year in this area.
Over the past years alone we have commercialized 15 molecules. Our pipeline remains robust with approximately 50%. Inquiries are also now being focused on non hack and molecules mover moving towards the domestic operation. In Q4 our strong Demexin brands have shown a growth with 21% year on year growth. Our steadfast focus on product mix of innovative crop solutions to approach yield and the desired results to the farmer. Our biological rain again continues to score strength on strength with a strong 20% growth from over the prior years which is already on a very high growth rate over the last three years.
Domestically we have introduced seven new brands in this year. Further we have a pipeline of 20 odd products and various stages of development to be introduced over the years. So while our core business mix assures a sustained traction for the coming year, the development of new verticals contribute to the future performance as we are transforming from A pure ACTAM leader to life science powerhouse and aiming to become a global technology platform leader in biological space while becoming a differentiated player in the CRDMO pharma play. While we continue to build a full integrated CRDMO platform providing world class solutions backed with strong knowledge and high quality assets across from research, commercial to manufacturing.
With excellent leadership now in place, we are on an extra path to look for growth. During this year we upgraded and added our asset basis across geographies in alignment to our strategy to meet our customer needs. Moving on to our biologicals, this category is offering and has experience at the fastest growth rate in the recent times out beating the industry. Acquisition of Plant healthcare which has a specialization in Peptides marks a significant step towards our intent of becoming a platform technology based product solutions and biologicals to serve the global markets. This is very much in line with our purpose of building a healthier planet.
We’re also marking good progress on our proprietary offerings. We as BI with our first new entity from India to the world which is currently in the midst of phase three trials. We are evaluating with partnerships across the world in developing regulatory data. Additionally our R and D programs are giving us some positive progress in greeds to build a pipeline with exciting outcomes. The initiatives are perfectly aligned with our strengthening our position as a technology leader and a manufacturing powerhouse to bring opportunities for partnership models across the globe. We remain the leader with the chemical industry in ESG having achieved acclaims, we proud to have retained our listing in the prestigious S and P Global Sustainability yearbook for the second time in 2025 which speaks volume of our ESG journey.
While the global industry navigates trajectory headwinds and general business dynamics remain uncertain. We maintain our growth outlook expecting the broader sentiments to improve in the second half of the year. We are confident in the long term prospects of growth outlooks. Our investments in new capabilities capacities across the business lines at a global level remain on track setting the stage to deliver a vision with this. Thank you to all of you to joining the call. I would now like to hand over to Sanjay our CFO to take this and over to you Sanjay thank you. Thank you.
Sanjay Agarwal — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you, thank you Mr. Singhal Good afternoon everyone on the call today I will summarize the company’s financial highlights for the quarter ended 31st March 2025. Please note all the numbers which we are talking here are on year on year basis. Comparisons are on year on year basis and refer to the consolidated performance. So to share the performance highlights during quarter four FY25 we reported a revenue of 17,871 million, a growth of 3% over the same period last year which implies a three year CAGR of 9%. While there’s a decline in the EKM exports, the volume is up by 7% and new product growth is 23% year on year due to scale up of products commercialized over the last three years on our domestic branded revenue business grew by 21% year on year supported by a strong Rabi season marked by increased acreages in wheat, rice and pulses.
Pharma business also had a strong sequential revenue growth of 33% to rupees 850 million in quarter four or FY25. In spite of all the development expenses we had in pharma and our PHC business, a consolidated EBITDA grew by 3% and remain at a healthy 25.6% due to good product mix and tight overheads. Management let me cover the performance for the full year. FY25 revenue was 79,778 million, a growth of 4% over the same period last year which implies a 3 year CAGR of 15%. New launches and biologicals remain a key feature for us in FY25 Ekam export revenue grew by 5%, our new product growth is 31% year on year and domestic branded revenue business grew by 6% and a volume of 9% up.
So our momentum for launches of new innovative product has continued with seven new products launched during this year with a crop solution approach and similarly our biologicals business on a yearly basis grew by 20% on consolidated basis the EBITDA grew by 8% for the full year to 27.4% on a standalone basis. If we look at it, our EBITDA grew much higher at 17% and PAD grew by 8% on a consolidated basis the profit is marginally down by 1% at rupees 16,602 million impacted slightly due to a higher ETR at 22.5% versus 11.2 in the last year.
We expect ETR to be in the range of 20 to 23% for the next two to three years. The trade working capital the number of days has increased to 73 days while the better inventory management has led to reduction in inventory days from 62 days to 45. Our balance sheet further strengthened during the year our net worth increased to Rupees 1,570 Million and with a very healthy net cash balance of Rupees 40,926 Million. In summary, our healthy financial performance leading to stable Cash flows provide us the flexibility to continue with our growth plans and our CapEx spends allocating additional capital towards our future growth engines in pihs, our Pharma business and phc, a global biological franchise.
This gives us confidence to have a focused growth. With this friends, I’ll conclude my opening remarks. I’ll now request the moderator to open the forum for Q and A. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, I press Star and one on a touch tone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press Star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. As a reminder to all the participants, please restrict yourself to two questions. Ladies and gentlemen will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes on the line of Rohit Nagaraj with PNK Securities. Please go ahead.
Rohit Nagraj
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity and glad to hear that the MC has moved to phase three. Just one question on the NCE P ops on ebtol in terms of what is the time to commercialize that we are looking at and how much have we already invested in terms of R D and how much incremental R D investments are likely to undergo for this mc? Thank you.
Salil Singhal
Maybe I’ll take that.
Sanjay Agarwal
Yes,
Unidentified Speaker
yes. Okay. So we are expecting, as we explained, we are right now in the process of, you know, regulatory data development, evaluation and also application preparation. We expect to commercialize in the very first country in the next couple of years. As regards the second part of your question about the investment etc, this is not in front of us and also it’s. It’s very confidential data. So I hope this, this helps your. This information helps you in your question.
Rohit Nagraj
Thanks. Thanks. The second question in terms of what is the composition of the new high growth molecules in Akim CSM by the end of FY25 and similarly the composition of biologicals in our domestic branded business at the end of FY25. Thank you.
Sanjay Agarwal
Maybe I can help you on that. Business would be around 18 to 20% of our total agribusiness at chem brand business in India. And similarly the new products are broadly 15 to 18% of.
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, the management line has been disconnected. Please be on hold while you quickly get them reconnected.
Unidentified Participant
Sam. Hello.
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, the management line has been reconnected. Please go ahead.
Sanjay Agarwal
Should I repeat the answer to the earlier question or did we move on to the next one?
Rohit Nagraj
Sir, if you could repeat, I think the Malignos got lost in between thank you.
Sanjay Agarwal
Okay, so I’ll just repeat when we’re talking about new product launches and their contribution to our Ekam export business is around 15 to 18%. And similarly the biologicals business for our Ekchem brands business accounts for around 18 to 20%. The biologicals business is the last question what you asked.
Rohit Nagraj
Right, sir, Thanks a lot and all the best.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vivek Rajamani with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Vivek Rajamani
Hi sir, thank you so much for the presentation. Just continuing with the question on the new products in your portfolio for fiscal 25, they’ve grown at about 30% plus. How should we be thinking about the growth of these new molecules in fiscal 26 or even fiscal 27? And as a related question, these new molecules grew about 40% plus into QN3Q and about 20 odd percent plus in the remaining two quarters. So. So any thoughts with respect to is there a seasonality element here? Would also be super helpful, thank you.
Sanjay Agarwal
Yes, I think for the next financial year also we can have a similar new product. As you know, the new molecules are getting commercialized. Fifteen got commercialized in the last three years. So they’ll continue with the same momentum of new products adding to the top line growth and giving us stable margins on that.
Vivek Rajamani
Sure. So that’s helpful. And anything with respect to seasonality or it would just be equally spaced across the.
Salil Singhal
Well, let me be very strict seasonality. As you have seen over the years, quarter to quarter variation always happen. It depends on demand supply, market situation, positioning. So yes, that will continue to happen. That is generic DNA of this business.
Vivek Rajamani
Sure, sir. And just a clarification, if you’re going to continue the same momentum on these new molecules, would it be fair to say that the 15 to 18% of contribution that we have as of this year, that number could probably be maybe north of 20, 25% by the end of next year. Would that be a fair assumption?
Salil Singhal
Well, I would not put as a clear cut mathematical computation, but yes, because there’s variation, volume drives, multiple things come together. But objective is to continue to increase this portfolio because some come in and some go out. Right? That’s the strategic way it works. But that’s the mandate which you work in.
Vivek Rajamani
Sure, sir. Thank you. I’ll rejoin the queue. And all the very best.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Abhijit Akela with Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Abhijit Akella
Yes, thank you so much and good afternoon. So the gross margins this quarter seem to be really strong, almost at record levels. Despite the fact that there is some price cuts in the CSM business as we alluded to in the presentation. So just sort of wondering what’s behind the really strong gross margins? And with regard to the EBITDA margin outlook for fiscal 26, what’s the range we should work with? Is it, I mean this quarter we reported 26% but the full year was 27. So what’s the right number to work with for next year?
Salil Singhal
So if we were to look at it again, quarter to quarter would not be right when you look at numbers. But yes, the margins are based on product mix. Good aggressive growth in the domestic business followed with how we look forward as you indicated earlier, we continue to keep those guidelines between 25 plus percent if the demand is continuing to go up.
operator
Speaker. This is the operator. Can you come a little closer to the MIC while you answer? Thank you.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, so as we’ve indicated clearly product mix with the growth, strong growth seen in the domestic business and continuing to look at the margin going forward as indicated, we continue to maintain our guidelines on the same.
Abhijit Akella
Okay, thank you. And the other thing was just on the a couple of data points if I may for Mr. Agarwal. One was what was the pharma EBITDA loss for fiscal 25? We’ve given the PBT laws but would it be possible to share the number at the EBITDA level? And the presentation states that there’s this target of aspirational target of, you know, increasing the biologics revenues five times in five years. So where do those revenues stand at present and therefore where do they go in the next five years? Thank you so much.
Sanjay Agarwal
EBITDA for the full year has been in the range around 180, 190 crores. Hello.
Abhijit Akella
Yeah. Yeah, okay, thank you for that. Yeah. And the biologics revenue, what is it exactly right now in absolute rupees.
Sanjay Agarwal
Sorry,
Abhijit Akella
the biologics revenues, what is the amount right now at present?
Sanjay Agarwal
No, we spoke about it that the biological business contributes around 18 to 20% of our India agribranch business.
Abhijit Akella
Yeah, but the presentation says we want to increase it five times in the next five years.
Salil Singhal
Yeah, so I think this is clearly we are looking at the asked two questions. I think the biologicals one is what is that we are looking at? It’s already stated it’s 5x. Clearly today we are at something around in.
Salil Singhal
35 to 40 million. We are at 35.
Salil Singhal
Crores right now which would probably move up to 5x. So we do the 1000 crore target in the next 5 years 1200 crores.
Abhijit Akella
Understood. Thank you so much, that’s helpful. Thank you. All the best.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Ankur Perival with Access Capital. Please go ahead.
Ankur Periwal
Yeah. Hi sir, thanks for the opportunity. First question, you know on the margin outlook for us now as I understand pharma losses are expected to go down as we look to ramp up this business over the coming FY27, FY26 or two to three years. At the same time the Eckm business is going to see more launch of new products which presumably will be better margin and still we are maintaining our overall guidance at the same level as FY25. Is it that there is some bit of pricing pass through or maybe some pressure that we are seeing in the older products or if can help your thoughts over there?
Salil Singhal
Well I think, you know one I think should look at the businesses not by path to ABCD zone like a clear cut cookie cut but to be very honest there are investments and overheads which are being built up. So ratios are different but on global blended basis we’ve indicated where we are looking in terms of margins and that’s what the company will continue to maintain and grow with.
Ankur Periwal
Okay, fair enough. Second
Sanjay Agarwal
and at the same time I think just to appreciate that the company is investing hugely to build a global footprint in biological and in pharma and cost of running global organizations from a different cost structure. So taking all those blends and building up to create the nice next place to be in the life science place needs investments both in human capital and other areas.
Ankur Periwal
Sure sir. Secondly on the pharma business while we are targeting a much sharper sort of revenue growth going ahead, will we need an incremental FDA approved or maybe a bigger production facility for this business to ramp up or that is still some time away and probably nominal Capex will do here.
Salil Singhal
So clearly I think this is a step by step approach. We have present assets which have been upgraded with investments. Clearly as we see things turn around the corner and you very well would understand this asset comes, it’s an asset led business and as we see things turn that shape to our rates we’ll definitely be looking to scale up as we have ambitions to put a huge number in scale to go to this business.
Ankur Periwal
Sure sir. Just one last bit, a bookkeeping one. So in the balance sheet we have a contract assets of around 430 odd crores which was around 150, 160 crores last year. If you can just highlight what exactly is that for?
Sanjay Agarwal
Yeah, so these are standard industry practice of having any business, I mean any contracts where the goods have not been delivered before the cutoff date. So, so these get. These are specific contracts wherein the goods are produced for a particular customer and which have now been subsequently been billed or shipped out in the next subsequent months.
Ankur Periwal
Sure. Agarwal ji, if just is this for Pharma or for the Akam export bit?
Sanjay Agarwal
It will be in both of the businesses.
Ankur Periwal
Okay, great. That’s it. From my side. Thank you and all the best.
Sanjay Agarwal
Thank you sir.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes on the line of S. Ramesh with Nirmal bank equities. Please go ahead.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Thank you and good evening. In the pharma business when you’re looking at improvement in margins is it possible to share what is the kind of improvement in gross margin you can expect from this? 52% FY25. And in terms of the run rate for the overheads at this 306 crores in FY25 do you see this stabilizing at these levels with marginal inflation related increase or would you see further increase in overheads?
Salil Singhal
Well I think the overheads have been, I mean this particular financial year we had unfortunately some one offs which we had to take care of it going forward. What I can say at this point of time the business is built with the gross margins of around 60, 65% and with the scale up of the revenue the operating leverage will start kicking in and we should have a better. Profitability at the bottom right as well.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
So can you share what is the one off impact on the old inventory write off which is increased overhead.
Sanjay Agarwal
So I mean as you know, I mean any business currently the overhead what we have are being much higher versus the revenue what we have. Difficult for me to give you the exact numbers but the current overheads have these development spends, they have been as we spoke in the Q2 we had one particular customer where we had to take a doubtful debt provision and some other one off cost which impacted this year. I mean this led to a higher overhead than this financial year which we do not think would be there in the times to come.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay, so on the domestic business with the current run rate of around 1400 crores, what is the kind of potential you see or when do you think you can say good over 2000 crores because a lot of small peers are already at 17 under 2000 crores and you have so many new products being launched. So what is the kind of direction you are seeing this business heading towards over the next two, three years?
Salil Singhal
Domestic business is about 1500 growth but it’s pure brand business. Whereas when you’re comparing to other smaller players they also have technical and B2B business and sports. So Pisces will be a pure business brand. Play for one clarification. Clearly as you indicated this is we’re looking at a 15 20% growth. Over. And above the average investor. 2 lakhs of the industry growth.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay, thank you very much and wish you all the best.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Sourabh Jain with hsbc. Please go ahead.
Saurabh Jain
Hello, thank you so much for the opportunity. If you can give some more insights into your guidance. When you say a single digit growth guidance so that kind of implies a broad range from 1% to 9%. Is there a possibility you can give a sense on whether it’s going to be a mid single digit or high single digit kind of guidance? That’s my first question please.
Salil Singhal
Well, very clearly but early but we looked at the median level growth level this year given the industry had been the uncertainties of climate situations and policies across the globe. As you said, we would definitely see some positives to is coming in H2 but that’s where we stand for now and we would keep that outlook for the present.
Saurabh Jain
And when you say H2 do you mean by calendar year or it’s going to be the financial year?
Salil Singhal
Financial year plus.
Saurabh Jain
Okay, understood. Possible to also, you know give a sense on how do you see the exports versus domestic. You know, in terms of your guidance both business going by single aged or I presume domestic would be higher.
Salil Singhal
Yes, obviously they will now hopefully keeping the climate situation the positive trend. We would see a good growth in the domestic business as you are very well aware of the global headwinds. So that’s where the areas are still under challenges from the export front. But that’s what we. But we believe that from H2 the export business will start picking up well with our launch of our new products and the growth in those areas.
Saurabh Jain
Okay, thank you. My second question is relating to capex, the 925 crores of capex. This includes the amount that we paid for PHC acquisition, right?
Sanjay Agarwal
No, this is only the fixed asset addition. So there is a small minor amount which has been added at the console level arising from the PHC acquisition but primarily relates to the Capex spend what we have done at PI and at pihs.
Saurabh Jain
Okay, understood. And one final bit on the acquisition side. Can you give us a direction in terms of how much of the Capex you are Directing towards your legacy at Camp Portfolio, does it share a major part of your Capex or it has moderated any insights would be very useful.
Salil Singhal
No, I’m not very clear of the question. What do you mean by legacy at Camp Portfolio?
Saurabh Jain
Looks like so the key products in the portfolio which you export for the last few years which are some sort of headwinds now are you committing more Capex incrementally or slowing down Any sense on that side please?
Salil Singhal
No, I think the company looks at Capex based on what is the requirements, the business plans, order commitment, customer partners in a product and value efficiency drivers and typically the existing products already have assets which means constant upgradation improvements in all those areas. That’s a mixed bag and that typically has looked but when we build assets we’re more strategically investing majority of that for building for our new offerings and our new product solutions.
Saurabh Jain
Okay, sure. Thank you so much and all the best.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Madhav with Fidelity. Please go ahead it
Madhav Marda
yeah. Good afternoon. Thank you so much for your time. I said one question. I think we have one NCE which you said has reached phase three trials. Just wanted to understand that you know if, if we’ll be launching our own branded product in the market does that create like a longer term conflict of interest with our existing model, you know which has been a more contract manufacturing CSM model and we partner with innovation.
Salil Singhal
About how do you look at this a conflict of interest because. Because BI in any case is also doing branded sales, it’s also doing contract manufacturing, it’s also doing innovation. The unique point of our capability at a global level is partnerships across the value chain. Actually this gives some of the business partners strengthening our relationships from being an innovator to a market core as a co creator to develop this business. So I don’t really see that as a challenge.
Madhav Marda
Okay. Reason I ask is because our branded business is more focused in India whereas our exports used to be more contract manufacturing driven. So that’s why those questions Got it understood.
Salil Singhal
The same way the products will work so they will work on the same ground. Partner globally, locally, partner and sell with ourselves. So that’s all the same business leveraging, same capabilities.
Madhav Marda
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Krishan Parvani with GM Financial. Please go ahead.
Krishan Parwani
Yeah. Hi sir, thank you for the opportunity. A couple from my side with you know, strong 65% growth in the pharma business. Do you expect pharma business will turn ebitda positive in F26 or if not in F26 and when.
Sanjay Agarwal
Sorry, your question is not clear.
Krishan Parwani
Yeah, so I was asking since you expect 75% revenue growth in the pharma business when do you expect the pharma business to turn EBITDA positive?
Sanjay Agarwal
Yeah. So this one will take time. So it’s not easy to give you a number that will be definitely. It will take time over next few years because once we are scaling up we will also be doing furthermore whatever people expenses and all will also go up. So EBITDA break even. Yes, that’s on, that will be on the horizon but it will definitely take. Some
Salil Singhal
very clearly over the next 26, 27, 28 we should see the positive trends of this business very clearly.
Krishan Parwani
Okay. Okay, got it. And on the Pakistani prol. The new NCE just wanted to understand which major crop would this insecticide be used on and. And which is the first country you intend to commercialize?
Salil Singhal
Well this is a diamond chemistry so we will be looking at as a multi crop application and obviously the pride would be to see if we can get India first in the Ford. But while we’re working with two or three countries departments for application. So it depends on how the regulatory framework works.
Krishan Parwani
Okay. And one final bit on the Capex. How much Capex will you be incurring. In F26 if you could get done breakdown of agro and farmer?
Salil Singhal
Well there’s no breakdown we would have but Capex in the manufacturer will be around that same area right now about 8 to 900 crores in the similar ratio that you had last year.
Krishan Parwani
Understood sir. Thank you for answering my question sir. Wish you all the best.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Suman Kumar Motilal OSWAL Financial Services Ltd. Please go ahead.
Suman kumar
Yeah. Hi sir. So can you comment on EBITDA margin guidance for FY26?
Sanjay Agarwal
Yes, we spoke about it. We would be looking at around 25% in the range of around 25% as.
Suman kumar
Our so now compared to FY25. Do we have any expansion from here?
Sanjay Agarwal
Expansion as of now we see when we’re looking at the next 12 months down the line there are investments what we are doing in the be other businesses which are going to be a growth engine. So I think for now it is better to take around.
Salil Singhal
I mean that’s our guided line and we continue with that to be very straight.
Suman kumar
Okay. Okay. And any capex for FY 2627 and. Tax rate guidance.
Sanjay Agarwal
252526 capex should be in the range around 800 to 900 crores and the effective tax rate should be be around 23%.
Suman kumar
Okay. Okay, thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Riju with antique stock broking. Please go ahead.
Riju Dalui
Thanks for the opportunity. So my question regarding in terms of the guidance so that you have provided. So the growth that you are expecting. So it is mainly driven by the volume or kind of a price increase you are expecting.
Salil Singhal
So if you see that, if you see the performance of last year, 9% volume growth, 6% on value growth. Hoping the prices are looking to be stabilized. We should be looking. Volume will definitely grow and that’s the object. Volume. And that balance should remain dependent on how the market react. This is not a straight line walk. But as you know sometimes prices go down, volumes pick up, prices go up, volumes go down. But that range in balance if you look at all companies and segment flavors.
Riju Dalui
Yeah, okay, understood that. And in terms of your, you know the growth in the Q4 and as you report in the presentation. So what I believe is that there was a strong growth in volumes and which was partially offset by the relation growth. So like how are the end product prices currently and how do you see going forward those crisis? Sorry, which segment in terms of ethnic sports?
Salil Singhal
Well, you know, the segments. I think as you would appreciate that the actium we are continuing to grow our new product pipelines at 30 odd percent and if you look at the product standard in the individual areas, which areas, which segments those are with the customers. So broadly does the strategic move continues to grow the existing product portfolio in the same ratio while the other products continue steady state growth rate. Yeah.
Riju Dalui
That I understood. But what I wanted to understand is that during the quarter Q4FY25 our agri exports volume growth was roughly 7%. Correct me if I’m wrong. So Visa V like one can expect that there was a sharp declining prices. So how do you see these prices going forward?
Sanjay Agarwal
Let me, let me take this. So yes, there is obviously some price softening and that is on the basis of input cost which, which is also softening. So over last one year, one and a half year post Covid input prices have come down. Okay. And given our business model of CSM export where these input cost improvements are also passed on or passed through and therefore the pricing of some of these products, existing products have also come down which is also reflecting in. In the growth numbers that you were expecting.
Riju Dalui
Understood. Thanks for the satisfaction. And one last thing, kind of a bookkeeping. So if you could tell the order book size that we have currently as on Q4 25.
Sanjay Agarwal
Yeah.
Salil Singhal
This is also one 1.3 billion plus but we don’t have exact number in front.
Riju Dalui
Understood, thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for the question.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all, Sorry, next question comes from the line of Kur Pandya with ICC Prudential Life Insurance Co. Ltd. Please go ahead.
Keyur Pandya
Thank you for the opportunity. Question. On the capex FY25 we have spent around 800 crore on the organic Capex and guidance also remains similar number for FY26. I mean on the current gross block that suggests that over two years the average expansion the gross block would be upwards of 15 17% whereas our revenue growth is relatively lower. So anything has changed in terms of asset turn or eventually the asset turn has to catch up by higher revenues. So if you can just throw some light on this and the breakup of the capex on domestic exports in pharma or any, any color on Capex.
Thank you.
Salil Singhal
As you would understand that we are building a new vertical called Pharma. Obviously the Capex turns will be lower till we get to a certain scale and size. On the other hand, you know capitalists if you look these are cyclical in nature. In the past they’ve always capacity leave demand and therefore building capacities based on certain demands and understanding from our customers of products which are in the pipeline. So we do believe that overall on an average basis 3 years we should be able to continue to manage our asset turn and better that.
Keyur Pandya
So just one follow up so sustainably what kind of asset turn at a company level or segment wise we should think of and breakup of Capex in these three key subcategories. Thank you and all the best.
Salil Singhal
The asset turn continue to be at the similar range. I think today we have one of the benchmark asset turn in the industry and we’ll continue to try and continue to manage.
Salil Singhal
Yeah. So anything between 2.2 to 2.5 is what we will consider a sustainable number of Capex turn. And the breakup of Capex.
Salil Singhal
Maybe Sanjay you can take this major Capex of this is for our CSM exports and some bit of it will also in coming year will be for pharma of course. But Sanjay maybe you can share the breakup if you have.
Sanjay Agarwal
Yeah. So broadly in the 800, 900 when you look at it around 100 could be in the PI the pharma business and the balance will be in our, the manufacturing business, in the eye care business.
Keyur Pandya
Okay, thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Himanshu Binani with Anandrati Please go ahead sir.
Himanshu Binani
Thank you for taking my question. So again on the guidance side basically so we have been like guiding for a 75% plus sort of like growth in the pharma business. And on a console level we have been looking for a single digit sort of like just wanted to have a sense in terms of how one should actually look into the CSM exports business group. So that should, so how one should actually work with the CSM exports business growth for FY26.
Sanjay Agarwal
When we look at pharma, I mean it’s only say 5% of our total business. So that will not move the needle for the whole organization. And the whole organization as you already mentioned that it should be in the mid single digit growth plans for this financial year.
Himanshu Binani
Got it sir, got it. And sir, any, any sense on the gross margin guidance.
Sanjay Agarwal
Which is CB always give a. Because it’s already a function of product mix. You’re seeing something.
Salil Singhal
Yeah, so I was saying that. Which will remain around 50 to 52% depending on the final product mix that we are able to achieve.
Himanshu Binani
Got it sir, thank you.
Salil Singhal
And for CSM we have to also keep in mind that in last three to four years we have, we have been growing at 20 to 25% so obviously the base is pretty high. And as we have guided that for next couple of quarters while the industry, global industry is navigating through this headwind. But we certainly believe that in the from the second half of FY26 we should be able to again catching up, you know, the growth momentum and that’s how it will function.
Himanshu Binani
Got it sir. Thank you, that was helpful.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Somaya V with Evan Despar. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Thanks for the opportunity sir. So first question is on margins. So in the domestic side biological seems to be the next growth engine. And then also on the CSM side your new products is like roughly around 30% as you mentioned. If you could just give some color on margins in both these businesses directionally compared to biologicals versus existing branded in domestic and a new product versus the rest of the other portfolio with csm that should be helpful.
Sanjay Agarwal
So we don’t do individual level but I think broadly as you will know biological have a better margin and the ratio improves. That gives the better play. And for new products again it’s a bag of mixed bags. That’s how it works.
Unidentified Participant
Got it sir. Sir, also when we are giving this FY26 guidance, so we have given it for broadly pharma and then we have broken it down. So what is the thought process for the 70% of the CSM business which is the, not the new products 1. What is the volume versus pricing thought there? I mean would it be you know a volume that will kind of overtake pricing and then that’s how we are looking at it. What broad thoughts there?
Sanjay Agarwal
Well that’s not the right way. As I said it’s a balance between volume and price. But obviously that’s going to remain in line with the industry as we have those on the chop for us and some of these products so they will work with the market dynamics and that’s typically as I said in this industry, as the genetics of this industry that volume of price continue to play differentiated. Okay.
Salil Singhal
And just to, just to add to this. So obviously again there is a, you know, portfolio of products. There are legacy products, there are new products. As we are saying, significant percentage of new products are getting added and they are contributing in the growth. So in fact pricing also works like that. In terms of old products where the input cost is improving, obviously those improvements are passed through and you know, price reduction happens and you know all that. But as far as new products, you know it is products that are being launched where the input costs are kind of sort of stable there the pricing trend is different.
So on a blended basis it is, it is not so simple to tell you that pricing will be 5%, 10% down and volume will be 15% up or something. So it’s, it’s a blended situation here.
Unidentified Participant
Also the atom Capex that you are referring to any multi purpose plants that are expected to come this year, next year or is it more of you know, existing facilities we are putting in capex. So how does it work?
Salil Singhal
As we said in the past we’re doing a capex with two multipurpose plants which are under construction. We expect to commission one this year, maybe the next this evening of my state.
Unidentified Participant
Helpful sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you speakers. Can you please come a little more closer to the mic and speak? I’m promoting the next that is Sivanshu Dubai with Dhruv investment. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello.
Salil Singhal
Yes,
Unidentified Participant
congratulations for a great resource. But actually I wanted to understand the working capital cycle would be expected to remain in the same number of days.
Sanjay Agarwal
Yes.
Salil Singhal
Go ahead. Go ahead Sanjay.
Sanjay Agarwal
We have seen a slight reduction in our net working capital in this particular financial year. But the inventory days have come down. So for the year you may consider the range what we have. So we are at around 73 odd days. The same thing could be take around 65 to 70 days.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, sure, sure. And can you also tell us about the new products development that is happening in the ICAM export with Pyrexa Sulfon going off patent in I think mid of 2026 in USA.
Salil Singhal
So what is that you’re looking to that because. Yes, as we said, the new products over the last few years have been growing in a gather of 30% and that’s really where we are on my product portfolio.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sure sir. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. Next speak. Next question comes from the line of S. Ramesh with Nismal Plank equities. Please go ahead.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Hello, thank you for the follow up. So when you talk about the target for the bio business, would it all be focused on the domestic market or does it also include some growth from the plant health investment in the subsidiary?
Salil Singhal
Yeah, so we’re looking at biological play primarily by domestics right now. But for the next five years it will become a global play.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
And in the pharma business. In your slide 17 you mentioned about improving order book visibility. So is it possible to share the line of sight there in terms of discussions or inquiries, what is the thought process?
Salil Singhal
So let me put it this way. Yes, we can give it a high level. Obviously you would understand the confidentiality both from a customer name and products and areas if you’re working. So Ramesh, maybe you would like to give some insight that. Yes, you’ve done looked at what you’re looking at a broad line of development. Ramesh, over to you.
Ramesh Subramanian
Yeah, sure. So we continue to build pipeline. We have over the course of the last year added early development pipeline meaning new projects in high single digits on early development and high single digits also on late development.
That’s the pipeline. Moving forward we also onboarded two new big pharma customers and the goal in FY26 is to add another two or three so that we can have a sound base of Big Pharma that gives consistent revenue on biotechs that personally can give you better margins. That’s sort of the play that we are focusing with.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Thank you very much. That’s helpful.
operator
Sarmesh, are you done with the question?
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Yeah, thanks.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Salil Singhal
So once again thank you to all of you for participating in the PI investor call. We look forward to positive times going forward and continued support. Thank you.
operator
Thank you on behalf of PI Industries limited. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us you may now disconnect your lines.