360 One Wam Ltd (NSE: 360ONE) Q1 2026 Earnings Call dated Jul. 17, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Sanjay Wadhwa — Chief Financial Officer
Anshuman Maheshwary — Chief Operating Officer
Karan Bhagat Yatin Shah — Chief Executive Officer
Analysts:
Mohit Mangal — Analyst
Nitesh Jain — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Sanket Goda — Analyst
Abhijit Sakare — Analyst
Siddharth — Analyst
Dipanjan Ghosh — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to 361 WAMP Earnings Call for Q1FY26. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen only mode. In case you wish to ask questions or require assistance during the conference, kindly signal the host by tapping on the raise hand icon. Please note this conference is being recorded on the call. Today we have with us Mr. Karan Bhagat, Managing Director and CEO Mr. Yatin Shah, CEO of the wealth business, Mr. Anshuman Maheshwary, COO and Mr. Sanjay Wadhwa, CFO. I now hand it over to Mr. Sanjay Wadhwa to take this conference ahead.
Sanjay Wadhwa — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you, thank you Anil and a very good evening to all the participants. Starting with the macros, Indian equities, after facing some sharp volatilities in the last two quarters, witnessed a rebound in Q1 FY26. While geopolitical events could influence broader markets in the near term, structurally we continue to remain bullish about India’s long term growth story which will act as a tailwind for India’s wealth and asset management sector. Before I get into the business and financial numbers, just wanted to highlight that the consolidated financials for the quarter include full quarter financials of ET Money and post acquisition financials of just over a month. For BNK, our total ARR AUM increased to 2.87,317 crores up 30% year on year.
This growth was supported by strong net flows at 20,950 crores. The flows also include ARR net flows of 18 to 66 crore. As a result of the acquisition of BNK securities, the growth in our client base continued to be very healthy. Presently we have 4200 clients with a total AUM of 10 crore plus who account for 95% of wealth AUM excluding custody. This includes approximately 700 corporate clients that we have onboarded as part of the BNK transaction. Our ARR revenue for the. Quarter grew 35.9% year on year at 511 crores led by strong growth in assets across business segments. Our ARR revenue as a percentage of total revenue from operations stood at 77%. Retention of ARR AUM also remained strong at 79 basis points and 70 basis points ex off carry. Total revenue stood at 725 crores for Q1FY26 driven by higher ARR revenue and other income. Total Costs are up 32.7% YoY to 351 crores in Q1FY26. The cost to income ratio stands at 48.4% as compared to 50.7% in Q4FY25. As explained earlier, the cost for the quarter also include full quarter cost of ET money and post acquisition cost of bnk. We expect gradual improvement in this metric over the coming quarters as we scale up and drive synergies from new business initiatives and teams. We are very happy to report that the company recorded its highest ever quarterly PAT at 287 crores, an increase of 18% year on year. The tangible ROE is at 19.6% in Q1FY26. This ratio is expected to improve in the coming quarters as additional capital deployed in all lending and alternate businesses in FY25 begin to reflect in earnings. With that I would like to hand over to Anshuman to cover key business and strategic highlights. Thanks.
Anshuman Maheshwary — Chief Operating Officer
Thanks Sanjay and good evening everyone. Taking Sanjay’s comments on the overall business numbers ahead, I would like to share updates on our key strategic initiatives. As you are aware, in recent quarters we undertook inorganic measures to strengthen our core business model as well as create future optionality. These initiatives are expected to enhance our core tenets and help us benefit from the significant wealth and asset market opportunity in India.
Firstly on BNK we are happy to announce that the deal has been successfully consummated and all requisite approvals were received on May 27th, 2025. Post merger integration of people and processes has already begun. Mr. Sahil Murar Ka promoter and MD of BNK securities has joined the 361 leadership and will continue to spearhead the business along with Mr. Sanjeev Mata and the high caliber team at BNK. We are also excited as Sahil joins the 361 WAM board. With BNK we are now better positioned to build out a robust, sustainable broking and transactional platform within our wealth management franchise. Secondly, our. Our conviction on the HNI business continues to grow with over 30 RMS, 250 clients and 1500 crores of AUM tracking at over 90bps of retention, we are now well poised to drive the scaling up and see that happen over the next few quarters. While 361’s broader platform and core client centric wealth management ethos will continue to effectively support the growth of the HNI business, we are also excited to take numerous technology related developments done for this segment to our UHNI clients as well as our core senior bankers. Thirdly on our strategic collaboration with ubs, we are happy to share that we have received all regulatory approvals to complete the transaction. As shared earlier, the strategic collaboration has three interrelated components Business collaboration across geographies and business segment, ubs stake in 361 and integration of UBS India’s wealth management business with 361 WAM as we speak. Supported by the top management from both firms, we are working towards a smooth migration and integration while creating expressways globally for a strong international collaboration. This collaboration brings together two powerhouses in the space of wealth management to create a platform that is truly without parallel in the country. This exclusivity, it guides us not just by the business opportunity but also by shared beliefs in values, ambition and a client first philosophy. UBS’s global investment expertise, research and access will improve our ability to serve the cross border needs of our clients as well as enhance our wealth management proposition further. Fourthly on ET Money with the firm becoming part of 361WAM, we have jointly laid out an exciting strategic agenda to go deep into the mass affluent segment and drive growth and higher monetization of the rapidly expanding client base. We will continue to share more on ET Money as we go through the next few quarters. On the asset management front, the continued focus on deepening our channel presence in the domestic market specifically through mfds is delivering positive results. The pipeline of new funds across asset classes as well as new international institutional mandate pipeline remains strong. Global institutions continue to be interested in exploring new investment strategies with us driven by the India growth story and our ability to innovate and co create strategies with them. Such tailwinds supported by 361 assets, strong track record in managing prestigious institutional clients gives us confidence towards the next phase of growth for the business. Also we. We plan to extend our alternate strategies to a larger set of client base as well as institutional clients across India as well as globally. In the coming quarters. I think apart from the core business areas, we continue to take exceptional pride in the external recognition received by our wealth and asset management businesses. We continue to be very proud of the awards received in the last quarter and over the last few years. We are also very proud to be recognized as a great place to work 2025. I would take this opportunity to thank all our partners and stakeholders who have restored this trust and confidence in us through our journey. With that, I’d like to hand it over to Karan and Yatin for Q and A.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you. Anshuman. To ask your question, we request you to kindly signal on the raise hand icon. First in line we have Mohit Mangal. Kindly unmute and ask your question. Mohit, Mohit, can you hear us? I invite Lalit Dio. Am I audible? Yes. Yeah. Can I go ahead?
Mohit Mangal
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So my first question is on net flows. So basically you have mentioned in your presentation that about 18,000 crores is basically coming from BNK. So just wanted to understand basically, is it sitting only in the mutual fund distribution business number meaning?
Anshuman Maheshwary
No, sorry, just to kind of clarify, I think the 18,000 crores of net flows is relevant to the mutual funds business and the rest of it. The tbr, which is the custody stocks and so on and so forth is not referred into this category. This is only for the arra. Only for the ARR. Okay. And so basically how do we see the net flows for the entire financial year 26? I mean you have given guidance around 30, 35,000 watt crores. Do we stick to that?
No, I think we continue to be focused on our strategy of getting 12 to 15% of our net opening AUM as net flows for the year. We started out the year around about 1 65, 1 70,000 crores of opening ARR Aum. So around about 12 to 15% of that is what we would focus on getting as net flows. And the quarter one has been quite robust in terms of flows. I think we’ve seen the asset management business do around about 1000 odd crores of net flows. The wealth management business also had good flows. It was a little bit tempered with the 1,700crores of flows because we had a little bit of net outflows also coming from the deposit. Part of two of our teams and that kind of impacted the flows broadly by around about a 3 1/2 to 4000cr number for the quarter. And this is the second quarter I think since the departure of the teams we expect between the two teams as pointed out earlier, around about 5 to 6% of the AUM to be lost. So 4000 crores of the AUM, 3 and a half. 4000 crores of net AUM is the outflow and we’ve got another 1700 crores of net flow. So overall with the induction of new teams you had a good quarter of 6,000 crores of net flows. On the wealth management side sounds a little tempered for last quarter of being around 1700 crores for that reason. In addition, asset management has seen around about thousand odd crores and plus the, plus the BNK that that broadly kind of sums up the total of the net flow number.
Mohit Mangal
Understood. Second question is on the ET money. So basically we have seen that this kind of business is kind of bleeding. But I suppose that we have got good plans for this in 26 as well as 27. It will be like net positive for us in the, in the bottom line as well.
Anshuman Maheshwary
I think we made a lot of progress on, on ET money. I think when we took on the business it was kind of having a broad loss around about five crores a quarter, four and a half to five crores a quarter. We brought it down to nearly six crores a five crores a month. We got it down so now around about 50 to 60 crores annually. Now it’s down to around about 6 to 7 crores a quarter. So I think over the last eight to nine months the business has made significant progress. I think we’ve also decided and charted out a very, very clear growth map and strategy which we are fairly confident about.
And you know, business from a, from a moat perspective continues to have three phenomenal modes. I think having technology to execute at scale B, having focused only on financial advisory and wealth management as opposed to going down the brokerage path and thirdly continues to be very, very rich in content and SIPs. So I think how do we kind of monetize that is something which we’ve on over the last six months and simultaneously we’ve been able to kind of get the, get the burn down from around about 5560 crores a year to around about 25 crores.
Mohit Mangal
Understood. So lastly on the ease I think we had very good quarter in terms of yields as well. But, but I believe that you know, I mean yield kind of yield will go down, right by one or two basis point, maybe the next two to three years.
Anshuman Maheshwary
I think that that is that a fair assumption. I think yield will go down by 250 basis points. But I’m quite confident, like I’ve said earlier about the headline yields being maintained in different line items. But I think the mix of business will grow slightly differently. So I think distribution will continue at that 75, 80, 85 basis points, advisory at that ballpark range of 30, 35 basis points and discretionary broadly at 40, 45 basis points and NBFC at, you know, that brought 350, 400 basis points. But the contribution of each of these lines on a relative basis may advisory and discretionary might become slightly more in percentage terms than. Than than, than distribution and therefore effectively that will cause a compression around about 2 to 3 basis points on the yield. So while the headline yield numbers might not change dramatically, I think overall on the wealth management ARR we might see a little bit of compression of 2 to 3 basis points basis the basis the mix of business on the asset management side. So the only place where I see a little bit of reduction in the headline yield is on the asset management side on the listed piece. I think we built a fairly robust business of nearly 50,000 crores of AUM and we’ve been able to maintain nearly 60, 62 basis points of blended yield. And I think that’s, that’s a place where I think as we incrementally add AUM relative to the mark to market and the yields might come down by three to four basis points on the alternate side continue. I think the yields will continue to be in that ballpark range of 85, 90 basis points to 95 basis points including the, including the carry income. So overall I think on the asset management side again not a big compression yield 2, 3 basis points but more coming out of the listed side than the alternate side. And then obviously it’s a function of a little bit of the mix of the business. Obviously if you grow a little bit faster on the alternate side there won’t be any reduction in yields. On the other side if you grow faster on the listed side, there may be a little bit of reduction on the yields. So while I think if I just look at the 6, 7 main main pillars of business, I don’t see a reduction on the headline yields but, but a mix of the business will redu. Will result in a reduction of 2 to 3 basis points. Understood. So my last question is in terms of attrition I think you have mentioned very, very categorically that we have lost some bit of aum. But I think we have kind of hired from the competition as well. And so the net impact should be kind of low. Right. In the. Over the next two to three quarters we would see some kind of a bump up in the AUM growth by hiring more from the competition. Yeah. So I think I won’t say there’s no impact. There’s always impact of change. Okay. I think that we have to recognize and in the end of the day we are in the people business and people are our biggest assets. Having said that obvious little bit of change in attrition is inevitable. And you know, as a firm for the last 15 years we’ve been able to kind of really service a phenomenal platform for our people to grow. And I think we continue to work tirelessly titles titles tirelessly 247 to ensure that we provide the best platform for all our employees to take to clients. And you know, while, while we are able to match ambitions and aspirations of most of our people, sometimes some people have to kind of move on. And while, while we kind of respect that, we’ve been able to retain 90, 95% of our entire senior sales force resulting in a fairly, fairly solid, solid AUM growth as well as a very low attrition number. It’s the first time over the last one year we’ve seen some attrition and that’s obviously led to, as I said earlier on, about a 4 to 6% potential loss in the um. Having said that, it’s obviously opened up our eyes to uh, all the talent which has kind of got built up in the industry over the last 10, 15. 15, 20 years. I think there’s a lot of good talent out there and we’ve really worked hard over the last six odd months to be able to attract the best talent. And you know we, we, we’ve been very, very successful. We spend a lot of time in meeting people. A lot of at least three or four very large teams have already joined us and we are at the cusp of potentially seeing three, four more large teams joining us over the next three to six months. So you know it’s, it’s something which kind of little bit continues here and there. You’re left to, left to choice. I wouldn’t want a single person to go and if possible we could recruit the entire wealth management industry. What obviously can’t happen and broadly around that I think, I wouldn’t say we would want to lose anybody but we are not, we are in a comfortable position in terms of a little bit of plus and minus. It’s a stop and a go and that has its own kind of implications. But eventually as you rightly pointed out, it becomes a bit of a rolling curve and we should be able to add much, much more AUM than we potentially lose out of attrition in short term.
Mohit Mangal
Understood. Thanks and wish you all the best.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Request you to kindly restrict yourself to two questions each. Next in line we have Nitesh Jain. Nitesh, kindly unmute yourself and ask your question.
Nitesh Jain
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. So thank you. Mish. Yeah, I have two, three questions actually. So first question is net flow, net outflow that we are seeing of 2 to 3 to 4000 crores. When do you think it will stabilize and neutralize in coming over next two, three quarters. Maybe if you can ask all three questions it will make it easier for me to answer. Maybe speeding up things a bit. Yeah. There is also an increase in yields on the lending book and AIF in this quarter. So any particular reason? And third is if you can give some color on the transactional based revenue for the quarter in terms of breakup in direct equity, unlisted BNK and that that would be useful. Thank you.
Anshuman Maheshwary
No. So I think to start off, I think obviously the impact of AUM moving out is slightly, slightly front ended. I think that’s, I wouldn’t say it’s, it’s typically, I would kind of split it between two to three quarters. I think a couple of quarters is gone. So in our own assessment, you know we are towards the second half of the last quarter of net outflows from a perspective of being able to kind of predict it to perfection. Obviously very difficult, but I think it’s fair to say that large majority of it is already done in terms of the quality of the transaction income. And then I’ll come to the yields, the quality of the transaction income.
Obviously, I think we’re working very hard to ensure that our transaction income is as close to being as close to being repetitive as possible as opposed to being kind of cyclical. And as we, you know, work hard to grow our transaction income from around about 550, 600 crores to around about 1000 crores over the next two, three years. I think in that respect, I think building a very strong research based equity brokerage platform for both institutions, corporates, family offices as well as ultra high net is very important. I think today that number for us, if I kind of add both BNK together with the ultra high net worth brokerage platform we have is around about 270, 280 crores. I think we hope to kind of build that and grow that by at least 20, 25% every year for the next three, four years. In addition, obviously you’ve got the other asset classes including fixed income, debt, bonds, unlisted equities, a little bit of real estate insurance, which kind of gives us the ability to add the remaining 3,400crores of transaction income. So overall, I think while I think transaction income has been super healthy over the last three, four years, I think our ability to diversify across asset classes and be able to toggle across multiple client segments will allow us to kind of grow that in a responsible way. Know we work, we, we continue to work very hard to ensure that our transaction income can be on a steady state basis round about the 250 crore number on a quarter, on quarter basis over the next two, three years. And while we build that, we are also kind of very conscious of the fact that we would like to maintain our transactional brokerage income at around about 20% of our income. So I think that’s, that’s the, that’s the broad, broad principle of the transaction brokerage side in terms of the increase on, on, on the, on the yields on the EIF and lending. Obviously the lending has a little bit of an impact of the increase in increase on yields on account of the capital raised last quarter. And that obviously kind of will come back. And from a compression of yield perspective as the, as the book kind of builds up on the, on the AIF side, yields have been kind of fairly steady. Nothing super phenomenal, just a mix of, just a mix of assets. I think a little bit more, a little bit more increase in yields largely on account of the larger amount of commitments coming in on the alternate, on the alternate side. So I think the drawdowns have kind of started coming in and that’s kind of increased the yield a little bit.
Nitesh Jain
Sure. Just one, one follow up on tbr. What is the revenue from NSE etc in this quarter NSE transaction?
Anshuman Maheshwary
We don’t really disclose revenue on a transaction by transaction basis, but there’s nothing lumpy from an NSE or any of these. So there’s nothing lumpy in from a TBR perspective. I think there’s no single transaction which contributes more than 10 to 12% of our TBR revenue.
Nitesh Jain
Sure. Thank you. That’s it for myself.
Operator
Thank you. Next in line we have Priush Jain. Can you unmute yourself?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Hi, Karan. Hi Pri. How are you? I’m good. How are you? All well. Just in this outflow on the lending book, what was the reason?
Unidentified Participant
Reason for that?
Anshuman Maheshwary
Nothing, Nothing specific honestly. I think lending book will come back this quarter. We had a couple of, actually a couple of large loans against a few collectors got refinanced at slightly lower rate. So I think that’s about it. But and the loan book is steady. I think we have our own space in it. And very quickly I think it’ll come back to its own basis. And on the retention on the lending book, do you think we would be back to something like 5.3 odd levels?
But we used to 4.7, 4.8 to 5ish even. We’ve also kind of come off of a cycle where we were borrowing a little bit more expensive. I think that’s also come off for us a bit. You know, we are able to borrow at substantially better rates now and I think we also have kind of ended up raising a bit of capital. So I think overall feel comfortable with that number in the shorter end. Obviously a little bit of, little bit of compression, but I think may not be 5.3, but definitely around that 4.8 to 5% ballpark.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, and last question, BNK and UBS numbers would start getting reflected from 2Q onwards. So BNK is reflected for one month, I think 35 days.
Anshuman Maheshwary
So that, that will start getting reflected from the second quarter fully UBS numbers. I think we’ve kind of got all the, all the approvals in over the last two, three days. So I think there are certain other cps to, to complete the transaction which in natural course will take another month or so. So I think effectively UBS not maybe this quarter, but the next quarter. BNK fully in this quarter. But BNK entirely would be in transaction in this quarter. Or is there anything else? Also there are two elements of corporate treasury.
Yeah, corporate treasury. So corporate also kind of has again small two elements. It has an element of ARR which is on the mutual side. Right. There’s a very small amount of bond brokerage also. But I think BNK on the, on the ARR side out of its total revenue would be adding around about 20, 25% of ARR revenue. Office total.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it. Thank you so much and wish you all the best.
Operator
Thank you. Next in line we have Sanket Goda. Sanket, kindly unmute and ask your question.
Sanket Goda
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. You said that 1750 crore is the actual flow happened in the current quarter and you said 12 to 15 percentage which translates into 20 to 25,000 crores for the full year. So when you said 20 to 25,000 crore it is like to like 1750. Right?
Anshuman Maheshwary
That’s the way I need to see wealth ARR net flows to play out in the current year. So as I said earlier, I think 1 65, 1 70,000 to 12 to 15% would be 20 to 25,000 crores on the wealth management side. We opened the year of at around about 75 80,000 crores on the asset management side. So take another 12 to 15% of that, which is effectively 9 to 12,000 crores. Crores. So you add the two, you effectively end up around what 27, 28,000 crores to 34, 35,000 cr. So that’s the sum total of the ARR Aum we aim to target on the wealth management side. Therefore we need around about five, five and a half thousand crores on a quarterly basis. On a run rate basis. Net flows. I think as I was explaining earlier, I think we did on a normal course basis around about six odd thousand close in net flows this quarter. Six, six and a half thousand. It’s kind of got partially set off with, with, with, with gross net outflows of ex. I don’t want to call it exceptional but three and a half, 4,000 crores of net outflows with, with, with two teams kind of moving out and I think that stays max for another quarter. But we hopefully quarter two, quarter three, quarter four, we do enough to be able to make out that make up the 7,8000 crores of incremental net outflows which happen thanks to the hiring we’ve done. So I think that’s really where it is. I think if we started out aiming to collect 20, 25,000 crores on the wealth management side. Like I’m saying, we have to do 7,8,000 crores extra for the year. So we have to do 2728-35,000 to account for the 8000 crores of net outflows.
Sanket Goda
Okay, perfect. This explains. And, and, and the other one we just wanted to check is that out of that 150crores of transaction income, what you reported in the current quarter, how much would be bnk?
Anshuman Maheshwary
That’s one thing. And also in the employee cost of 180 odd crores, how much would be BNK related employee cost? Just to understand the color. So we are not reporting entity wise, we are reporting segment wise. Okay. So I think BNK largely gets reflected in the corporate and institutional bucket which is effectively around about 24 crores for the previous quarter.
Sanket Goda
Okay. And okay, that’s it for myself. Thank you.
Anshuman Maheshwary
Thank you very much. But 24 crores is 35 days.
Operator
Yeah. Next in line we have Abhijit Sakare. Abhijit, kindly unmute and ask your question.
Abhijit Sakare
Hey, I hope you can hear me. Hi Abhijit. I can hear you. Yes. Okay, so first question is when I look at the, the TL team, the TL base that we have, it seems like there’s been a bit of a juniorization over the past 12, 18 months. So how do you think about that in terms of ability to gather large mandates. I’m guessing some of it is because of the exits that we’ve seen. The five year plus vintage data that we disclose that’s come off a little bit over the 12 months. There’s obviously a very severe intensity to go for good quality talent. But yeah, which that’ll change in six, eight months with the recruitment. So it’s not really, this is not a, it’s not really kind of a permanent change or something obviously.
Anshuman Maheshwary
With the loss of 8, 10 bankers is showing up a little bit. But as soon as we do the recruitment and everybody comes in, that will change automatically. They got it. And then just in terms of the AUM that moves out with these exits, is it fair to say that, you know, the distribution assets have a higher tendency to move out compared to the advisory or there’s really nothing across the segments when large teams move out?
No, I think, I think it’s fair to say distribution assets will have a slight, slightly more tendency to move out followed by advisory and the discretionary being released. Because obviously the interface of the firm is different in all the three mandates. Having said that, I think broadly speaking, you know, that number is in my mind any number between 5 to 6%. I, I would be really surprised if it’s a number dramatically higher than that. After that, obviously your, the, the, the challenge, the battle, the opportunity is really to engage with the client and then kind of there’s business as usual. So I think from an AUM perspective, I still don’t have data rich enough to say that on distribution it is 7 and on advisory it is 4. But I think logically speaking you’re right. I think distribution assets are more likely to kind of get attrition faster. But I think broadly speaking, if you can, if the numbers stay around that 5 to 6%, a broad benchmark, I think that’s, that’s where that’s what we, that would be healthy.
Abhijit Sakare
Got it. That’s all. Thank you so much.
Anshuman Maheshwary
Thank you, Abhijit.
Operator
Thank you. Next in line we have Siddharth. Siddharth, kindly unmute and ask your question.
Siddharth
Hi, thanks. Thanks for the opportunity. Two questions from my side. First up, is it possible given this whole attrition piece for you to share the gross flows both on the wealth and the asset management side for the last five quarters? And the second one was to understand what was the institutional mandate addition net of the addition that may have come from BNK specifically on that. If you could also additionally give an outlook on the asset management side on credit and private equity flows which, which tend to be relatively higher yield.
The last is an accounting question. Have we moved from accrual accounting on carry income? Because there seems to be a quarter on quarter variance. Last quarter there was that carry income. So have we moved back from accrual or is that due to a difference in performance resulting in lower carry? Start off with the second one first. There’s no real change in the accounting of carry is still continuing.
Anshuman Maheshwary
To be on the same method. It’s not a pure accrual method. It’s a slightly more conservative than that. The way we work on carries, we estimate the carry basis the nav and then once the funds are only 18 months away from maturity is that is, that’s the first time we start recognizing carry and then we kind of distribute it over the six quarters reaching towards the conclusion of the fund. So typically if a fund is ending towards the closure that’s really when you’ll see the carry fluctuate a bit. But outside of that there’s really no, I wouldn’t call it.
It’s like on a crw. It’s a, it’s a conservative method of kind of computing carry. It becomes, it becomes calculable for, for carry only once in once in once the scheme is 18 months away. Specific to your question or carry from the last quarter to this quarter. I think we have a couple of institutional mandates where we charge carry once a year at the end of the year.
And There was a $5 million 40 crore rupees we had kind of given out as a footnote last quarter which was booked out as, which were booked out as carry in the, in the previous as performance fee in the last quarter. So that’s what is causing the variation. But outside of that normal, normal carry calculation on our alternates is more or less, more or less in a kind of a straight line unless and until there’s a, there’s an entry of a big fund into the, into the 18 month kind of category.
On the first question, in terms of net flows itself, I think like I said broadly, I think very, very broadly without going into specific gross flow, net flow numbers for every quarter. I think all, all, you know, generally speaking in every quarter there are outflows around about anywhere from 800 to 1000 crores. There would be net flows of around about 4 and a half 5000 crore. That would be target, sorry gross flows of 4 and a half 5000 crores and leading to net flows of 4 to 5000 crores. So that’s the broad think as I pointed out in the last two quarters I think the net flows have been slightly better instead of four and a half 5,000.
Gross flows have been slightly better instead of four and a half 5 thousand have been closer to the 6,000 code number. The, the net outflows, the gross outflows have been slightly higher instead of being 1500 have been 3 and a half 4000 which has resulted in the net flows of 1500 2000. So overall, I think broadly, if you want to kind of reach the gross flows number on a steady state basis, add around about 10001500 crores for net outflows for the last two quarters. That net outflow instead of being 1500 is 3 and a half, 4000. So that’s the broad color on the, on the floor number
As far as the asset management goes. No, no, no special mention of any flow specific to the last quarter’s business as usual. I think we, we closed out a couple of new funds last quarter especially. We closed out the healthcare fund of thousand odd crores pre at. Value fund which I got kind of closed out 2/4 back at 4 and a half, 5000 crores. I think that on that we charge fee on a drawn down basis. So effectively the AUM keeps increasing as we, as we kind of call for capital and we continue to be focused on, you know, trying to do one, one, one one strategy based alternate scheme pretty much every quarter. And, and I think, you know, as time goes by, both on the private equity side as well as on the listed side as well as on the real assets and the, and the pre IPO side, we’ll see some, we’ll potentially see a fund close every quarter and maybe four or five funds through the year. So nothing, nothing specific on the AI for the alternates or the listed equity side for the last quarter. I think business as usual and we’ll, we’ll potentially to reach our target of 8 to 10,000 crores, we need 4 or 5 new funds and potentially the calling for the drawdown of the funds which we’ve already raised will lead us to the 8 to 10,000 cr number.
Siddharth
Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Just, just one part that got missed on the institutional mandates. Was there any addition that came in from the institutional mandates that are there with BNK or are, are these flows completely organic on the acid magnet side?
Anshuman Maheshwary
They’re completely organic.
Siddharth
Okay, thank you.
Operator
Thanks Karan. Thank you. May I remind you, in case you wish to ask your questions, please click on the raise hand icon. Next in line we have Dipanjan Ghosh. The Panjan. Kindly unmute yourself and ask your question.
Dipanjan Ghosh
Hey. Hi Karan. Good evening. Hi. Hi. How are you? All good, just few questions. So first, you know, again, I mean you know, presentation, the corporate and institutional segment, if I presume that majority of it is BNK, it seems that the run rate of, or maybe 35 days is like a month. So let’s, let’s say the monthly run rate. If I were to analyze it, it seems that BNK is broadly flattish to maybe a little bit better than last year run rate both in terms of revenues and maybe pbt. So firstly is that a fair assumption and secondly, I mean going into the year probably we were expecting BNK’s revenue given a high base probably to be little bit tapered down. So how are you looking into it? That’s the first question.
Second, you know, obviously during the start of the call you mentioned that the institutional mandate pipeline is holding up. So you know, out of the flow expectation that you’ve mentioned for the year, you know what sort of quantum are you building from this institutional mandates? And last question, in terms of the new hiring that you are doing on the team leadership side. So obviously you have on one hand seen attrition of flows from your clientele because of the. You know, RM’s leaving the organization. On the flip side, you are doing a significant amount of lateral hiring. So what sort of flows do you expect because of this lateral hiring and what can be the associated cost that goes into the P L because of this?
Anshuman Maheshwary
Okay, sorry, I’m just looking at. Yeah, so I think BNK is not flattish. It’s actually done slightly better. I think over the last year in question I think it was around about 16, 17 crores a month which we had disclosed last quarter, so leading to around about 204, 205 crores. I think for the current quarter it’s around about give or take 1670 crores a month leading to 200 crores. I think the current quarter it’s around about, closer to the 21 odd crores kind of number. 21, yeah, 21 odd crores for the, for the month.
So effectively it’s closer to the 250, 260 crore number. So broadly seems like a, you know, all things being equal of 15 to percent higher number than last year, which effectively from a PBT perspective will translate to a 10 to 14% higher PBT all things being equal for the, for the next four quarters. So I think, I think BNK is around about 20, 25% growth. Coming to your question on the institutional mandate, we’ve not kind of, we really don’t end up kind of building in something specific for our net flows number. I think we have to get to the net flow number whether we get an institutional mandate or not.
But I think we are always in touch on the, on the institutional mandate side. And you know, typically cycle for institutional mandates are fairly long. We’ve got five of them as we speak today and it would not be fair to expect at least one of them coming through the, through the course of the financial year on the team. I think, yeah, obviously it adds to the cost, but I think our, our existing team was also extremely, extremely well, well compensated.
So I think it’s, it’s, it’s really in that sense for the current year at least it’ difference is not really the, the sum total of both. So I think the cost pretty much, you know, like earlier is part of the, part of the, part of the entire cycle. I don’t expect it to disturb our cost to income issues in any material way unless we do decide to hire more people for growth. I think on a steady state basis. Just the, just the churn of the team members itself doesn’t, doesn’t lead to a cost addition.
Dipanjan Ghosh
So just one follow up Question, Karen. I mean, the cost for the global Offshore team, is there anything during this quarter or is it completely.
Karan Bhagat Yatin Shah
No, it’s there in the last quarter. It won’t be there from this quarter. Got it. Thank you. And all the. So for the last quarter, 8 to 9 crores of cost would be there.
Dipanjan Ghosh
Yeah, got, got. Thank you. 1450. Sorry. So last quarter, round about 1415 crores of cost will be there from the global team, which. Which won’t be there in this quarter. Yeah. Okay, sure. Thank you Karan and the team and all the best.
Karan Bhagat Yatin Shah
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next in line we have Lalit Dio. Lalit, kindly unmute yourself. Lalit, kindly unmute yourself and ask your question. Siddharth, in case you wish to ask a question, kindly unmute yourself and ask your question.
Siddharth
Hi. Thanks for the follow up opportunity. Just wanted to understand, on the lending book you mentioned that there was a specific reason for that sharp fall. How do, how should we look at that going forward? Also just a clarification on the overall net flows that we are looking at. Right. Including the 26,000 crore that we would expect from the UBS acquisition and the 18,000 crore that came from BNK. Broadly 70 to 80,000 crore addition in the ARR AU. Is that a fair way to look at it?
Karan Bhagat Yatin Shah
No, I think the UBS ALR substantially, substantially lower. It’s not $26,000. The entire AUM of UBS is 26,000 crores, not the ARR AUM. Okay. And yeah, the 18,000 crores of BNK is fine. And we’ll definitely aim to hit our 30, 35,000 crore number. So I think all put together 55,000 crores and UBS will be a sub 10,000 crore number purely in terms of ARR. So I think that’s the, that’s the math. So I think all three put together will be between the 60 to 65,000 crores.
Sure. And if you could clarify on the lending book, that fall of thousand crores, I think nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing out of the ordinary of the lending book. I think it moved up sharply in the last quarter. Also in Q4 and Q3 and Q4 there were two short term loads which kind of got repaid. There’s nothing else really from a lending book perspective. And you know, there were low loans of Q3, Q4 which kind of got repaid. And our current quarter has seen a good, good uptick back in the loan book. So nothing really specific on the loan book itself.
Siddharth
Got it. And, and one more on the hni. So this quarter we’ve seen net flows of roughly around 1500 crore, 1100 crore of which seem to come from HNI. So is it fair to say that the ultra HNI book was pretty much all outflows being replaced by gross flows and the entire net flow is, or large part of the net flow is coming from the HNI book out of the.
Karan Bhagat Yatin Shah
11 hundred crores of AUM and HNI round about 500 is. Yeah, 500 is organic and 500 is from BNK.
Siddharth
Got it. Thank. If you, if you take out the 500cr of net flows from HNI, the 1700 crores will become 1200 crores. Got it, Got it. Thank you. In case there are any more questions, you could click on the raised hand icon the. Panjan, you have a question? Hey. Hi Karan. Just, just one follow up. You know now that the UBS kind of tie up is broadly going to probably kind of kick in in the next maybe quarter or two, you know, just wanted to understand the thought process, you know, when you have worked with the UBS team in terms of identifying the potential customer cohorts that you can tap into or you know, in terms of how the ecosystem will work or you know, some sort of color that you know, for us investors or sell side, you know, for us to understand what sort of addressable market, you know, that in your mind you think could be a potential, you know, AUM accretion, you know, possible that from this cohort, let’s say over the next three, five years out there any sort of broader color on that.
Karan Bhagat Yatin Shah
So I think to be honest now we’ve not gone into defining exact specific numbers. I think we clear on the five points of collaboration and I think that’s really where we would like to keep it. I think UBS is also a very, very large, large engine. A lot of areas to work for and understand. We’ve also got our own style and work, working operations and I think, I think first is for the transaction to close. Then we get into the collaboration agreements which itself will take let’s say a month, a couple of months to get done. But I’m quite confident directionally the four or five things will play out very well.
I think it’s too early to define a quantum, but I’ll kind of re emphasize the four or five collaboration points. I think the first collab point obviously is our ability to kind of feed into the, into the UBS global products for the resident Indian LRS and Gift City Money. Second obviously is for our asset management products to come onto the, to the UBS wealth management platform and their ability to offer it to all their wealth managers to kind of feed into our products in India. Obviously that itself also needs to go through the same product approval committees like it would need for it to go through our site. Thirdly obviously is your clients who’ve kind of Indian clients who’ve kind of moved out or have built a very large. Large LRS portfolio over a period of time effectively kind of referring them to UBS for the global wealth management relationship. And fourth obviously is UBS kind of referring us to global NRIs who have an Indian resident NRO NRE portfolio which is still in India. So I think these four are the main pillars of main pillars of collaboration. And fifth obviously our ability to kind of draw benefit out of learnings from each other on way of doing business, how do the large global ultra high networks get serviced and so on and so forth.
Siddharth
So I think the first four obviously will get quantified, will lead to a certain number. Is it a certain target in our mind today?
Karan Bhagat Yatin Shah
I think the answer is no. I think our first target really is to get the, to get all our, all our products approved on each other’s platforms and kind of build the right alignment of interest and show it to relationship managers of both the platforms. And I think once that is done, I think honestly the India story as well as the ability of people from India in a limited way to diversify their assets are both existent. So no reason to believe why we can’t see a certain percentage of the India you have move into Gift City and similarly a certain percentage of the entire global aum, the UBS wealth side move into, move into India as a country. Too early to decide what their dum percentage might be. Could be 1%, 2% or maybe potentially 4 or 5% from here. But that’s something which time will tell and obviously a lot of it will be in the execution of it.
Siddharth
Got it. Thanks for the elaborate clarification. Thank you.
Operator
Thank, thank you. That’s all we have time for this evening. Thank you for joining us on this conference call. Have a nice evening. Thank you everybody. Thank you. It Sam.